Dave A Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 Hi All, My wife and I own 4 cottages scattered around rural Norfolk, which we have purchased over the last three years. It is our plan probably to add a couple more over the next few years. We have so far been very lucky with extremely good tenants and all of the properties pretty well looking after themselves. We don't use agents, and to date have had no major problems. Our first tenant is still with us and our longest void period was around a month and a half. Our average tenancies last 18 months or so. So, so far so good. Now, we have one property, it is an 1800s end of terrace cottage. Solid walls, double glazed and fairly compact. The existing tenant has just given us three months notice. I know the reason they are leaving is what they call damp in the main upstairs bedroom. I have seen it myself and know that it is condensation, but it runs off the walls, and mould does build up rapidly. I also know that they do not open the windows and have the house what I consider to be uncomfortably warm. We have purchased a dehumidifier for the property, which the tenant informs me fills up daily. That is one heck of a lot of condensation. When we re let, we will discuss with possible tenants the need to properly ventilate this property, but is there anything else we can do? Anybody else had this sort of experience? Cheers Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie-b Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 It is possible that the walls have been rendered with concreate as opposed to a lime render. the lime render that is traditionally used allows the walls to breath. you would normallty get water running down a concreare render and if there is a multifinish plaster over the render this can become blown. Dehumidifiers can often be fitted with overflow pipes so the tennant doesnt need to empty it. can you put an airbrick in the room or through a chimney? Another point to consider is, if the moisture is condensating on the wall it may be condensing ender the roof which may lead to rotten timbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richlist Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 All good points....I'd like to add some things you could do: 1. Warm damp air condenses on cold surfaces. As the walls are solid you really need to get them insulated. 2. You could fit an automatic humidistat extractor fan through the wall. 3. Provide the tenants with a good brochure on avoiding condensation. 4. Ensure you have a clause in your tenancy agreement that makes tenants responsible for mould and damage caused by condensation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerbut Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 Maybe you could stud the wall,put some of that silver faced insulation board between the studs and then plasterboard the wall over the studs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carryon Regardless Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 Consider asking a property surveyor to identify the root cause. A local guy might well be familiar with your specific problem and know the easiest remedy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grampa Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 It always helps to have a independent report with properties that are more prone to condensation so any tenants in the future cant blame the property. Also I have being painting affected rooms (walls & ceilings) with Dulux Bathroom paint with the mould inhibitor which doesn't stop the condensation but stops a lot of the mould forming and makes the walls easier to wipe down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richlist Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 I forgot to mention guttering & drains......often the root cause of dampness when blocked, leaking or overflowing and they should be quick and easy to check. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melboy Posted January 4, 2012 Report Share Posted January 4, 2012 Now, we have one property, it is an 1800s end of terrace cottage. Solid walls, double glazed and fairly compact. The answer is in your opening statement. Lack of ventilation will be the prime cause of condensation plus of course if the building has been renovated without using the old traditional building materials for solid wall (breathing) construction you will experience the problems you are having now. Not to go into it too deeply but when an older building with solid wall construction is renovated the recognised procedure as recommended by architects & builders etc. is to face the wall with stud partion with foam filled foil backed insulation behind the plasterboard and then conventional finishing plaster. This process does away with all the inherent problems of condensation in old buildings. I did an old stable with this process of renovation construction and it was just fine. So the answer to your problem is to look at ventilation of the building and of course to advise your tenants not to dry wet/damp washing on radiators and if cooking to open a window or fit an extractor fan to let steam dissapate. Mel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave A Posted January 5, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 I really don't want to gush, but staggered by the quantity and quality of the advice given. Thanks to all, will give some serious consideration to all of the points above, start with ventilation and work through to more intrusive measures if not succesful. The air birck in the chimney is a definite starting point as we removed a dangerous gas stove and the chimney runs through the bedroom, they can of course be blocked by tenants, but will try and tackle that one. The room will also need a repaint so the use of bathroom paint will help. Thanks Again. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cathyr Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 in some of our terraced houses with solid brick walls we have had problems with condensation after fitting double glazing as it appears none of our tenants know how to ventilate rooms. we have had extremely good results using positive pressure fans (various companies make and fit including Envirovent). these fans are usually fitted in the loft and blow a trickle of air into house which pushes damp air out. this is not a particularly cheap solution but it's very effective. Envirovent give big discounts to NLA members, no I don't get a cut, I only mention cos I can't quite remember names of any other manufacturers (someone in Wales, Nuaire? but they no longer fit, only supply). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave A Posted January 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2012 Thanks for that, they have a good guide to condensation on their web site, although it's a bit of an arse to download a copy. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richlist Posted January 6, 2012 Report Share Posted January 6, 2012 The brochure that I use and supply in all my properties and to all my tenants can be easily downloaded here:- http://www.ceredigion.gov.uk/index.cfm?articleid=3710 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave A Posted January 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2012 More good stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acura Posted January 6, 2012 Report Share Posted January 6, 2012 Hi Dave I've had one property that was the plague of my life for years, and I threw so much money at it trying to get to the root of the problem. One bedroom particularly suffered, and despite having builder after builder round, a surveyor's report, the chimney repointing, roof looked at, inside the loft addressed, an air brick installed, new render on the outside, new windows, mould-resistant painting done numerous times, the only thing that solved the problem was when the house was broken into and set alight! No, seriously, yes there was a fire, but what I did then was to have all the outside walls in that bedroom boarded with thick insulation boards, then skimmed and painted as normal. <touches wood> Everything now seems fine. This website might help ... http://www.jmlproperty.co.uk/condensation.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave A Posted January 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2012 Thanks for that, the arsen road might however be a slippery one, and in the long run quite costly as we also own the next door property. Seriously though, have noted your comments and think it's really case of trying the least costly and invasive measures first and trying to get a realistic tenant who doesn't mind opening the windows now and again. If that fails then we will have to look at the other more costly measures, such as those that you mention. When I have been round to view the "damp", the house has been to me stifling and no windows open. Despite me telling the tenant that the problem is condensation and ventilation is important. I understand that finance is a real issue for everyone at the moment, and heat going out the window is undesirable, but these types of property do need to breathe. Feel like I've just had a bit of a rant there. I have seen elswhere on here Richlists check list for tenants and noted about not renting to under 25s. I'm coming around to that line of thought as the only problems we have had (all minor niggly things) with tenants are those that have just left home and still think Mum and Dad are there to look after them, only M and D have been replaced with a Landlord. This is one of the reasons we don't use agents to find us tenants, we have rejected numerous tenants for properties because they just didn't feel right and 9 times out of 10 we have gone with our gut feeling and it has worked out fine. This over time builds up to experience which overules commercial demands. We do also go through references, garuntors etc. but from here on in I'm turning off the heating and opening the windows during viewings, if the first thing they do is moan about the cold, and the draught they're out the door. Thanks again Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geezah Posted March 4, 2012 Report Share Posted March 4, 2012 In order to eliminate the condensation caused by cold external walls in old cottages I have used modern insulating lining paper. Its not cheap, working out at around £6-7 a square metre inc the paste. Wallrock Thermal Lining paper. Raises the surface temperature of the wall and stops water vapour condensing on it. Also a good insualtor to keep heat in the room. Wouldn't an older property have sufficient ventilation due to the sum total of cracks and gaps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigdaddy Posted March 4, 2012 Report Share Posted March 4, 2012 Thanks for that, the arsen road might however be a slippery one, and in the long run quite costly as we also own the next door property. Seriously though, have noted your comments and think it's really case of trying the least costly and invasive measures first and trying to get a realistic tenant who doesn't mind opening the windows now and again. If that fails then we will have to look at the other more costly measures, such as those that you mention. When I have been round to view the "damp", the house has been to me stifling and no windows open. Despite me telling the tenant that the problem is condensation and ventilation is important. I understand that finance is a real issue for everyone at the moment, and heat going out the window is undesirable, but these types of property do need to breathe. Feel like I've just had a bit of a rant there. I have seen elswhere on here Richlists check list for tenants and noted about not renting to under 25s. I'm coming around to that line of thought as the only problems we have had (all minor niggly things) with tenants are those that have just left home and still think Mum and Dad are there to look after them, only M and D have been replaced with a Landlord. This is one of the reasons we don't use agents to find us tenants, we have rejected numerous tenants for properties because they just didn't feel right and 9 times out of 10 we have gone with our gut feeling and it has worked out fine. This over time builds up to experience which overules commercial demands. We do also go through references, garuntors etc. but from here on in I'm turning off the heating and opening the windows during viewings, if the first thing they do is moan about the cold, and the draught they're out the door. Thanks again Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigdaddy Posted March 4, 2012 Report Share Posted March 4, 2012 hi bungalows tend to be the worst as every thing is done on the same level ie washing cooking breathing ect i had a major issue in a bungalow and i fitted a passive vent into to roof space which pushes air into the buliding constantly creating a movement of air within the building its discribed as a majic wand ------------ combin this with the correct cleaning of the mould spores and treatment and it works soveriegn chemicals at cumbria have helped me with the fans and treatment go on their website BD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave A Posted March 5, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2012 Thanks Big Daddy, will look into the fan on the website mentioned, had a brochure off the company mentioned earlier, but really did not seem bothered so didn't follow up. The tennants move out first week in April so we will have the house for a while to make some ventilation improvements. We also have a bungalow and agree with problems associated with kitchen, clothes drying, bathing all being on one level, nothing however compared to this one. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chestnut Posted March 5, 2012 Report Share Posted March 5, 2012 Be cautious of excessive loft ventilation if any water storage in loft. In severe frosts loft temperature in a well insulated house may not be much above ambient and could lead to burst pipes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigdaddy Posted March 6, 2012 Report Share Posted March 6, 2012 Be cautious of excessive loft ventilation if any water storage in loft. In severe frosts loft temperature in a well insulated house may not be much above ambient and could lead to burst pipes. this fan is not ventilation to the loft it takes air from the roofspace and moves it around the house creating apositive pressure ---- some have a tiny heater in them that once temp in roff space drops below 10c brings in warm air ---------------------- to get rid of condensation you have to get rid of bad air ----- get rid of mould spores by killing them ------ soveriegn has the answer take it from me ---- BD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave A Posted March 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2012 Have made enquries with Sovereign, seem positive so far. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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