gove's rental reforms

[kanrent]

Just wondering what Lisa nandy will do now when labour wins the next election, if she wants to wear the badge she's got to go further than gove, maybe force landlords to sell to tenants at a big discount. 

[Carryon Regardless]

I considered a right to buy principle.

Remember the days when an investor could buy a run down property, renovate it with a grant, and be in profit from the grant even before renting the property out.

By 'eck 'ow things 'ave changed.

[Melboy]

One of my tenants is actually an EA and LA in a large office.  I am kept up to date by this person fairly regularly on the property scene for my area.

The current trend is showing that Landlords are selling up and getting out but not in large numbers maybe 1 or 2 a week coming into the office to put their property on the market. The largest volume of enquiries and property sales is more down to people downsizing, mortgage repayment problems, work related moves, and moving out of the UK to places like Spain France and Portugal. ( that number moving overseas has definitely increased I am informed)

I listened to a news program in the week when they were interviewing the boss of the Landlords Association and he said that he is selling ALL of his 17 rental properties due to current events. Sign of the times I guess.

Also, unusual perhaps? I have seen 2 properties on Rightmove for my area where the sales actually state for sale to BtL investors only. I can only guess the selling landlord has good tenants and would like to pass them on to the new landlord buyer. 

Memo to myself: must stop using the terminology Landlord and use the  phrase:  Private Home Provider.  😃

As for Gove, well, what can you say? He as useless as a chocolate teapot and just pandering to the liberal left of the Tory party to show that he dealing with the renting sector tenants and no doubt will stuff the private landlord bat of fair play where the Sun doesn't shine.

 

 

[bil8999]

Keep hearing about the government need to build more houses to bring the cost down, cheap affordable housing, how when nurses, doctors, teachers, public sector workers all want wage rises can we build cheap affordable housing, do they all expect building workers to work for less, we already do, don't say migrant workers please.

Any thoughts

 

 

 

 

[Melboy]

3 hours ago, bil8999 said:

Keep hearing about the government need to build more houses to bring the cost down, cheap affordable housing, how when nurses, doctors, teachers, public sector workers all want wage rises can we build cheap affordable housing, do they all expect building workers to work for less, we already do, don't say migrant workers please.

Any thoughts

 

3 hours ago, bil8999 said:

 

There is no such thing as cheap affordable housing. The price of land, construction labour costs and all associated costs determines the price of new build property which is why the Government main agent for providing accommodation for immigrants both legal and illegal falls upon their main agent SERCO. 

 Serco and Mears have won contracts totalling 2.9 billion pounds from the British government to provide accommodation and support and to hoover up used, cheaper houses and flats to accommodate these people.

You won't hear or see any of this being talked about on main-stream news channels. Taboo subject to explain where the British tax payer money is going.

Quote

  "Homeowners are being asked to take in migrants as asylum centres reach capacity and the collective hotel bill hits £2.4billion a year, it was reported last night. 

Private contractor Serco is offering potential landlords rent and maintenance costs for up to five years as well as covering tenants' council tax and bills.

Serco has said it will consider all types of property in the North West Midlands and East of England - including empty properties, second homes, care homes and student accommodation".

So how many new build houses do you have to build per year?  500,000?  750,000?  1,000,000 by 2030?

 

 

 

[bil8999]

14 hours ago, Melboy said:

All i seem to hear is that young people will never get on the housing ladder, and that the government need to do something about it.

Are young people wanting to buy beyond there means.

How, when doctors, nurses, teachers, public sector workers, railway staff etc, are on strike for higher pay, can we get cheaper housing, builder to work for less.

Worked for a teacher the other week, to match her earnings, pension, holiday pay and sick pay, i would need to charge £350 per day for my labour, she would have said get my tools together and do one. So much for cheap affordable housing. 

 

 

14 hours ago, Melboy said:

 

 

 

[Melboy]

Gove starts his campaign today for change to UK housing law etc. From what I reading and hearing on TV and radio there is some back-peddling on his proposals from a year ago.    There is evidence that some new build housing is happening to house immigrants and definitely strong evidence that private rental properties (in my location) are being snapped up for immigrants both legal and non legal. That evidence has come from my EA and LA contacts where they have said that 2 bed and 3 bed properties are being rented out for anywhere up to £300 above normal rental rates being charged to the local council. I have seen on Rightmove rental property evidence to back that up as well. That excess rental payment is being paid for by the local council through government grants. Admittingly this arrangement, at present, probably refers to probably less than 10 properties.

I don't trust Gove. He is a Weasel., but as we are nearing a general election I would think he has watered down a lot of his anti landlord proposals to gain support from Tory MP's and voters.

[Carryon Regardless]

I wonder how many Tory MP's / supporters are still in the rental game.

They would feasibly have had an earlier insight into the planned changes ahead, and if they have got out 'earlier' then they no longer give a toss as to how we will be screwed over.

 

If the Tories want to catch votes they might consider towing the barge at Portland back to France.

[kanrent]

6 hours ago, Melboy said:

Gove starts his campaign today for change to UK housing law etc. From what I reading and hearing on TV and radio there is some back-peddling on his proposals from a year ago.    There is evidence that some new build housing is happening to house immigrants and definitely strong evidence that private rental properties (in my location) are being snapped up for immigrants both legal and non legal. That evidence has come from my EA and LA contacts where they have said that 2 bed and 3 bed properties are being rented out for anywhere up to £300 above normal rental rates being charged to the local council. I have seen on Rightmove rental property evidence to back that up as well. That excess rental payment is being paid for by the local council through government grants. Admittingly this arrangement, at present, probably refers to probably less than 10 properties.

I don't trust Gove. He is a Weasel., but as we are nearing a general election I would think he has watered down a lot of his anti landlord proposals to gain support from Tory MP's and voters.

It's Lisa nandy that sends a shiver down my spine

[Melboy]

17 hours ago, kanrent said:

It's Lisa nandy that sends a shiver down my spine

Which is why it leaves many Conservative voting landlords with a problem  The Conservatives are bad for landlords but the alternative Labour government with MP's like Lisa Nandy will probably be far worse. Regarding Lisa Nandy she has the business brain of a Welk and like many MP's do not have a basic idea of how the rental market works but are controlled by an inept socialist ideology on property and housing.

Whilst I am on my soap box the terminology "Affordable Housing" does not exist in the real World of property. Ask anyone in the housing new build game how the price of everything associated with house building has rocketed.

These huge price increases do feed through to the used property market both selling and rental.

[Carryon Regardless]

You've got to sympathise with the socialists trying to convince us of their argument.

Right is wrong, and left is right. Is it any wonder Diane Abbott was confused when putting her shoes on.

[Melboy]

Continuing with the demise of the private BtL landlord...................

My Son has a contract with two medium size lettings agents here in Wiltshire mainly for gas safety certificates and boiler replacements etc.  One of the LA's is very concerned whether they will be in business this time next year as the exodus of the private landlord gathers pace. 

The main reasons are apparently 1. BtL mortgage rate increases now not making any sufficient profits from the rent being charged even after putting up rent. 2. Savings rate now hovering around the 6% mark means that a property can be sold off and the money invested with no hassle of tenants and all that is associated with BtL. 3. The loss of mortgage tax relief and now a double whammy of capital gains tax now heading towards just £3,000 next April means some landlords are cashing in whilst they can. 4.  The general downturn in housing prices which does appear to be gathering pace as well with the continuing IR rises nearly every 6 weeks.

This once, very busy, privately owned LA office is struggling for rental property coming to market now.

Grampa........how is your LA office going?

[Richlist]

I have to agree, it's looking very bad for BTL landlords. But you know, we don't just discuss private BTL's on this forum, occasionally we cover other areas of property letting. 

I think the smart money at the moment is in holiday lettings......provided you steer well clear of Wales.

[Grampa]

13 hours ago, Richlist said:

I think the smart money at the moment is in holiday lettings......provided you steer well clear of Wales.

Maybe not the Airbnb type as I hear changes are afoot.  

[Melboy]

Yes, Wales is a no go area for second homes now with the Welsh government now charging up to 300% with council tax on second homes.

Source information: https://www.gov.wales/council-tax-empty-and-second-homes

From 1 April 2023, the maximum level at which local authorities can set council tax premiums will increase to 300%. 

 Shame really as I nearly bought a holiday home in Pembrokeshire about 10 years ago for my own use plus family use but the seller pulled out of the deal at the last moment. Pembrokeshire is my main holiday destination in the UK so at the time it made sense to go for it. Glad I didn't now. 

  

[Carryon Regardless]

We will pay 3% 'extra' purchase tax should we invest in a 2nd property. Being one of the more 'progressive' systems that's 6% extra in Scotland.

You might think that if it were the 1st property in Scotland you wouldn't be penalised the 6% ADS (Additional Dwelling Supplement), but no, if you own property anywhere in the world the 1st Scottish property would be a 2nd home.

That's almost as if the Scots don't want anyone new there.

I've heard that some councils are actively trying to gain more council tax from holiday lets.

As there is a call from locals on many tourist attractive areas that local housing is pushed beyond their affordability, I see there will be more pressure on the holiday letting market.

For many of these areas the replacement of tourists will be by refugees, let's see if they are happy with that outcome.

We, not only UK but Europe wide, are going to see a greater influx of refugees over the coming years.

Maybe interesting to some

The UK in November 2022 is stated to have over 231,000 refugees, here's a comparison to other eu states,

https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SM.POP.REFG?locations=EU

[kerbut]

On 8/7/2023 at 7:49 AM, Richlist said:

I have to agree, it's looking very bad for BTL landlords. But you know, we don't just discuss private BTL's on this forum, occasionally we cover other areas of property letting. 

I think the smart money at the moment is in holiday lettings......provided you steer well clear of Wales.

We tried Holiday lets in Weymouth for 8 years on a sleep 8 property, when we did the figures for our tax return on this property last year, Dream Cottages commission, electricity, and gas (it was rated exempt as it was a small business) cleaners and laundry costs made it better to go back into residential letting, a 2 bed Flat in Dorchester with Booking .com. did not fare well either, with all the above costs made a profit £3000, without the hassle of change over days I sold all the furniture( in a Week), put it on the rental market again for £1200 pcm and let in a day to a married couple, both GP,s. The other property is a studio that sleeps 2 , my wife cleans and does the laundry on this one, so very few outgoings. We would not venture into holiday lets again apart from the studio

[Melboy]

More Government interference headed up by Michael Gove, Housing Minister and Children's Minister Claire Coutinho.

As I always keep saying I am not a business that is associated with social problems experienced by tenants especially when it comes to the fact that I am not permitted to rent to a tenant who is going to run a business which is going to operate from the rental property by the local government department. Same goes for the landlords insurance contract and even if it was permitted the insurance costs would rocket.

Gove and this Conservative government have made it more difficult for private landlords over the past 10 years with never ending new legislation for landlords. No doubt this will now be in the frontline of change for landlords to contend with as they step up new rulings regarding home based child minding as the general election gets nearer.

Details

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-66568493

[Richlist]

Back in 1988 I sold my house, bought a plot of land with outline planning permission and looked around for alternative accommodation whilst I built a house. At that time, in my area there were only 3 private rental properties available. As we were a couple with 3 kids then the two flats weren't suitable. So, we had the fabulous choice of one 3 bed semi available to rent.....we took it.

The Tory Government had spent the early 1980's selling off council housing to their tenants at discount prices. The private rental sector has expanded over the past 3+ decades to fill the gap they created. Now they are trying to make life so, so difficult for landlords.

Despite the increasing difficulties, many landlords, myself included, considered it was still the right business to be in financially.

However, things are changing fast. A while back a 5% or 6% yield looked great when bank base rates were 1% or less. But now we can all get 6%-8% on deposit with no risk, no hassle and no problems then, rental income starts to look like hard work......more so if property prices stall or fall slightly.

Perhaps it's time to think about that cold drink on a hot beach, somewhere sunny !

[Melboy]

What you have written RL more or less mirrors my landlord employment history and current thoughts on what is happening in the rental market.

Last night on ITV news at 10 the opening news story was all about working families not be able to find any affordable rental accommodation and having to live in hotel rooms or in a tent in a garden or having to move from London to Stoke on Trent due to cheaper rents.

Not once was there any reference as to why landlords were selling up and getting out of the business but of course plenty of reference to tenants being given 2 months notice to quit as required by law as the landlord wanted their property back for whatever that reason was. You could see where this was heading, the journalist was indicaticating that tenants should have greater security of tenure and the indication was that this should be measured in many months more rather than the statutory 2 months.

The selling off of council housing is backfiring on the Governments past and present and local councils and not replacing those houses.

[Carryon Regardless]

Isn't England going to remove our S21 ability, and extend repossession notices to 6months? Sorry I get confused now with the ever evolving legislation, if feels like I need eyes in the back of my head to at least be aware that the hangman is coming to get me.

Anyway Wales have done this with repossessions already. I served 2 S21's a few months ago, at the v last opportunity. I now need to research when my ability to use those runs out.

But as for us selling up and escaping this onslaught, perhaps with some foresight, that has already been made far less attractive than was. Rollover relief long gone. Taper relief, anyone remember that? CGT thresholds drastically reduced, and reducing.

There are calls for us to have to justify our reasons for selling our properties. In fact don't we already have restrictions to that in place, or is that just Wales?

So it's easy to imagine that over the next thrilling instalments, we shall be told who we shall have as tenants (by removing our rights to refuse), we shall only be able to repossess if a judge approves our request (be sure 2nd and 3rd chances will be granted the abusive tenants). They should be allowed animals. They should be allowed kids, in numbers, as a business, stuff the wear and tearing and kicking of doors. We shall be repairing more as discerning tenant abuse is always difficult (for a judge).

Rent increases look to be increasingly dictated. We have discussed this idea of a right to buy for tenants (that would have great difficulties mind). 

All of this with little to no chance of recovering losses from those with nowt, by a court that sympathises to them anyway.

###### I didn't realise things were going to be so bad till I wrote this.

C'mon RL you used to tell me I was too negative, give me a slap and tell me I'm wrong.

 

[Richlist]

We've been selling our rental properties, (one a year to minimise CGT) for some time now. So, we are almost out of the BTL business. We've  made a lot of money over the years from rental income & capital gain but the tax man has also done remarkably well out of us. The tax bill has been round £30K each year. We plan to sell them all......the money is currently getting a good return......risk, hassle & problems free. We've not decided in which direction to jump just yet. Have been looking at holiday lets, although they can have their own problems. I do know I'm going to avoid Wales .......shame, cos I love the place but it doesn't like investors like me. I'm afraid I feel that now is not the time to be a landlord. With a general election in the next 2 years, Gove's proposals may be put on ice but if Labour win, with or without the Lib Dems things are only going to get worse.

I'm afraid I don't see any good news on the property front for anyone !

Lets hope I'm completely wrong.

[Carryon Regardless]

When I read of LL's saying the state needs us I scoffed. As you hi lite RL it's about the return, those LL's were there for the financial benefit. When the benefit was attractive there would be investors getting involved, even if other LL's were pulling out. Now the risk for the diminishing return is too great for an increasing number, including me.

There is a continual increasing demand on housing. There have been gov't initiatives/ incentives for people to buy. If honest I don't know what number took up these opportunities, but it would soak up some available properties. But as our properties come to market there will be a starvation of available rentals. But in time that should be offset, a fair bit at least, by those properties being bought by new home owners. A question for us is will property values fall while the market finds a new level, due to the influx of our properties coming to market.

I sold my properties for less than local values, as I viewed the market was falling (it was). The comparable properties are still on the market.

But as we know v many can't finance their own home, so the rental market is needed. So as we progress I would expect politicians, under advice, to pull back on their socialist, vote grabbing, agenda's. But when? One sign for me will be when we stop being bashed by the media, when courts stop expecting us to be ultimately responsible for so much. 

The growth of Housing Associations seems to have ceased. I guess new build estates might end up reserving a proportion of their stock for new style associations, but developers would fight that vigorously. More councils might be financed to buy more stock, central gov't creates money when it feels a need. But really I see the easiest way to cover the increasing shortfall in rentals is to get off our backs. But I'm ready to retire and leave that to the enthusiastic naive young 'uns.

[Melboy]

I'm going to soldier on with what I have got which may well turn out to be a big mistake so I can add that mistake to the many I have made over a lifetime.  😄

If I were to sell a couple of properties I will get hammered with Capital Gains Tax as I have had them for so long now around 20 years and there is no way round not paying a sizeable chunk of tax.

Oh well, this Ostrich has his head well and truly stuck in the sand and ignoring everything. Even my humble EPC has gone up by a considerable percentage increase that I had renewed this morning. Shape of things to come I reckon over the next few years.

[Melboy]

Rental Reform Bill gets it's second reading in Parliament next week. Gove is under pressure to hurry it through before next April.     Shame,  most of these type of parliamentary Bills get kicked into the long grass of obscurity when it has obvious flaws in it's content. Let's hope a lot of MP's and Lords are affected with the proposals. It does appear that Gove has ignored the Residential Landlord Association advice during discussions.