Melboy Posted May 29, 2020 Report Share Posted May 29, 2020 Just bringing this back to the top of the discussion. I wonder how many landlords are prepared for this or even worse are not aware of the new legistlation? Properties in England must have an Electrical Installation Condition Report (EICR) before new tenancies are started from 1st July 2020. The checks ensure the property’s electrical fixtures, such as light fixtures and electrical sockets, are safe before the tenant moves in. The EICR must be performed at least every five years for each property. Landlords creating a tenancy without an EICR face fines of up to £30,000.From 1st April 2021, the new requirements will apply to ongoing tenancies that started before 1st July 2020. Similar requirements were approved in Scotland in 2015. Wales has no such requirements to date. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grampa Posted May 30, 2020 Report Share Posted May 30, 2020 We are all over this with a handfull of sparkys lined up on fixed pricing for certs. However, watch out for the ones who will give a good price for the cert but over inflate for any works that are required we have had that all ready. Going back to the legal requirement this is another badly drafted law. With a gas cert the requirement is it has to be safe but this new law it is requiring the electrics to meet the standard of the 18th edition which potentially has huge expensive ramifications for landlords which means replacing plastic fuseboxes for metal, changing circuit breakers and even some cables . This could mean some sparkys telling you, you have to upgrade everything to 18th edition. The penalty for non-compliance it as much as 30k. Also make sure any cert you get states 5 years until next inspection if less you will obliged to act on any lower one. However, I did speak to my local council and they are not insisting on an upgrade to 18th edition as long as the property has a cert. But other councils may take another view and if having one is linked with the correct service of any S21 you potentially could have a smart arse solicitor arguing that any s21 served is invalid. On that happy note enjoy your weekend fellow landlords. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melboy Posted May 31, 2020 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2020 It is an electrical safety inspection of the property and the requirement is not to bring it up to 18th edition standards 2020/1 but to ensure that items like incorrect or damaged/dangerous electrical circuits/sockets etc. are picked up on inspection and replaced or repaired. My long time electrician I use is all geared up to do my properties early next year and he knows it is a 5 year certificate and not the normal annual one. As Grampa has said watch out for the Sharks who will inform you of all sorts of things need replacing like your fuse box doesn't meet 18th edition regs. It doesn't have to, it only has to be inspected and safe to use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carryon Regardless Posted May 31, 2020 Report Share Posted May 31, 2020 I would suggest that the if sparky is looking for extra business and details failures because... request the specific regulation that he is failing for, that can be checked. A bit like going to Kwik Fit and they saying your brakes pads are worn, ask what friction depth remains. To my mind if a sparky can't detail the reg' he hasn't completed the required inspection and shouldn't be paid. If properties are supposedly unfit due to not being 18th Edition compliant than most of us should move out until rewired. I can understand a sparky refusing to add circuits to an aged, over used consumer unit. But that's different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzie Posted June 1, 2020 Report Share Posted June 1, 2020 Hi all, Please can I get some advice? I started a tenancy is May 2020, this is due to expire in November 2020. However it is likely the tenancy will be renewed for another 12 months from November 2020. I don't understand the action dates in the law very well, but does this mean I need to get this certificate by November 2020 or can I get it by April 2021 because the same tenants are likely to remain in the tenancy agreement? Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melboy Posted June 1, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2020 1 hour ago, Ozzie said: Hi all, Please can I get some advice? I started a tenancy is May 2020, this is due to expire in November 2020. However it is likely the tenancy will be renewed for another 12 months from November 2020. I don't understand the action dates in the law very well, but does this mean I need to get this certificate by November 2020 or can I get it by April 2021 because the same tenants are likely to remain in the tenancy agreement? Thank you. Properties in England must have an Electrical Installation Condition Report (EICR) Before new tenancies are started from the 1st July 2020.For You. From 1st April 2021 The new requirements will apply to ongoing tenancies that started before 1st July 2020. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanrent Posted June 14, 2020 Report Share Posted June 14, 2020 On 5/31/2020 at 1:41 PM, Melboy said: It is an electrical safety inspection of the property and the requirement is not to bring it up to 18th edition standards 2020/1 but to ensure that items like incorrect or damaged/dangerous electrical circuits/sockets etc. are picked up on inspection and replaced or repaired. My long time electrician I use is all geared up to do my properties early next year and he knows it is a 5 year certificate and not the normal annual one. As Grampa has said watch out for the Sharks who will inform you of all sorts of things need replacing like your fuse box doesn't meet 18th edition regs. It doesn't have to, it only has to be inspected and safe to use. mel boy i just read this here on this sites news landlords of privately rented accommodation, including houses in multiple occupation, must: Ensure national electrical safety standards set out in the 18th edition of the ‘Wiring Regulations’ (British Standard 7671) are met. seems like it does have to meet the 18th edition Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melboy Posted July 31, 2020 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2020 Just following up my own topic................ So I have had 3 electrical quotes come in for just one property. ( 1 bed flat ). 1 quote was at Mates trade rates at £500 and the other 2 quotes were £575 and £625. All quotes returned were for replacement "fuse boards" and 5 year certification. None were interested in given certification unless a brand new fuse board was installed. One of the quotes was by a Fella who had issued a landlords certificate on the property 4 years ago and didn't insist on a new fuse board back then did he. Shakes head! So it does look like to me that electrical contractors will not issue a certificate unless the latest edition fuse board is installed in the property. I have several properties that have to be done so I am considering trying a contract basis to see what prices can be achieved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carryon Regardless Posted July 31, 2020 Report Share Posted July 31, 2020 Thanks for the heads up on the expected increase in cost of upgrade. I gave up trying to be up to date on electrical regs a few years ago, and it'll be interesting to learn what the upgrade requirement will be. It looks like I'll be spending a bit of time on electricians forums where there will be chat on this. An upgrade of the consumer unit (fuse board) is going to include RCCB protection (earth leakage), rewireable fuses will be history, although cartridge fuses do have advantage over breakers. The earth leakage ideally would be in the form of RCBO's that provide independent protection for each circuit, but that is more costly than the one RCCB that protects the whole installation. Of course an RCCB trip means everything goes black, so less convenient. Time for me to catch up. I've no problem swapping out the consumers myself, and a later inspection would certify my work. My overall inspection of the installation would be more involved than the sparkies anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richlist Posted July 31, 2020 Report Share Posted July 31, 2020 It might be worth talking with any lettings agents you might know to find out who they are using and to enquire if they are getting the same feedback ie new consumer unit required. Where's Grampa ? What's his experience ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grampa Posted July 31, 2020 Report Share Posted July 31, 2020 Well although at first the regulation appears to state consumer unit needs to be brought up to 18th Edition. The government brought out an amendment/further guidance stating words to the effect that if you had a 17th Edition consumer unit it was be acceptable. I cant find the link to it at the moment but as soon as I do I will post it here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grampa Posted July 31, 2020 Report Share Posted July 31, 2020 Will all installations have to comply with the 18th edition, even if they were installed before this edition was in force? The Regulations state that a landlord must ensure that electrical safety standards are met, and that investigative or remedial work is carried out if the report requires this. The electrical installation should be safe for continued use. In practice, if the report does not require investigative or remedial work, the landlord will not be required to carry out any further work. Reports can also recommend improvement, in addition to requiring remedial work. If a report only recommends improvement but does not require any further investigative or remedial work to be carried out – indicated with a ‘C3’ classification code – then while it would be good practice to carry out this work, it would not be required to comply with the Regulations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carryon Regardless Posted July 31, 2020 Report Share Posted July 31, 2020 I've still to read further and gain some sort of definitive opinion. If a Sparky says it isn't up to standard, well which standard? The standard in place at the time of install or the current standard, the 18th Edition? A Sparky might say it's not up to him to research archive standards and he then decides his interpretation stands. The only defence of that is to request the specific regulation and challenge it. I am reading a general opinion that not all circuits require RCB protection. This is the view I took many years ago and would install split load consumers. Essentially the design was for the lights not to go out with the rest of the installation due to a faulty item being plugged in. RCBO's take care of that concern, so they are my new preference. That adds to the expense. A common view is that consumers of flammable material need be changed for non flammable. It's early days and all this seemingly (until I've read more) is open to interpretations. Assuming the installation is in good order the cheapest way to protect all is to have an RCCB installed either as a replacement for the main isolator, or in line to it. Even old rewireable fuses can be swapped out for cartridge fuses. If you are able to obtain the replacement carriers. Next to be cautious of is the inspecting Sparky using a 500 volt Mega to test the insulation. If there are electronic components in circuit it might fry them. An industrial Sparky may even use a 1,000 volt Mega. Low voltage Mega's are available. Mega being a generic term for insulation tester that applies voltage to a circuit to test the integrity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerbut Posted July 31, 2020 Report Share Posted July 31, 2020 I had to have a test today , the electrician ( well an employee) said it didn't conform , I pointed out his boss fitted the consumer unit last year and guess what?,it suddenly conformed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richlist Posted August 1, 2020 Report Share Posted August 1, 2020 This is scandalous, the organisation responsible for regulations & certification have already lost control. If you don't report these issues they will never be corrected and electrical checks will be a joke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melboy Posted September 18, 2020 Author Report Share Posted September 18, 2020 Update Just completed the first of my properties to meet the new Government rental property electrical standards yesterday. New consumer unit (fuseboard) fitted. Bathroom light failed and was replaced with a new quality LED safety ceiling light ( IP 65 ) and one defect found in one of the 15 amp mains circuit which was corrected. Total cost was £550 and this was at a Mates rate price as well. It was slightly more work involved as the property Consumer units were split into 2 separate boxes and now everything is neater and into the one unit. This flat was built in 1991 so not ancient either and had a current electrical safety certificate which was 5 years old. This work was carried out on a 1 bed garden flat. My other larger properties will come in at around £400 each property for consumer unit updates and certification. I managed to get this lower price on a contract basis. 5 year registration certificate will be issued to me in the next 2 weeks. I am of the opinion that Local Councils will enforce this new electrical certification on rental properties for landlords and any property found not to have the certification then you will be fined as per Government legislation. This will be treated as a means of raising revenue for the Local Council budgets.........think Bus Lanes and Yellow Box camera's which provides thousands of pounds for local council funding. Edit: I forgot to show a picture of the original installation. Photo No 4 at the bottom of the photo's. This electrical unit has been installed since 1991 and has never ever caused any problems. In my opinion and I have a reasonably good working knowledge of domestic electrics there was no reason why this unit could not have remained in place and a new certificate issued. The flat still had a current safety certificate in place which was coming up for renewal and that would have revealed the bathroom light fitting needed upgrading and a minor fault on a ring main socket. Just my opinion on this whole matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carryon Regardless Posted September 18, 2020 Report Share Posted September 18, 2020 I forgot new rentals needed the certificate, I was programming the existing but have an mt flat so that need doing. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richlist Posted September 18, 2020 Report Share Posted September 18, 2020 There is a distinct positive that comes from all this negative costly expense...... Residential property doesn't need an electrical (or gas) safety certificate if its not being let. So, anyone buying property might get a better bargain buying an ex rental property........at least it will have an electrical safety cert, at best it will have had many hundreds of pounds spent on upgrading the electrics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grampa Posted September 19, 2020 Report Share Posted September 19, 2020 23 hours ago, Richlist said: There is a distinct positive that comes from all this negative costly expense...... Residential property doesn't need an electrical (or gas) safety certificate if its not being let. So, anyone buying property might get a better bargain buying an ex rental property........at least it will have an electrical safety cert, at best it will have had many hundreds of pounds spent on upgrading the electrics. I agree, in the long run this is a good thing and should have been made law a long time ago. I personally brought a 2 bed flat a couple of years ago that I though as it was it such good all round condition i would have very little work to do to it before renting it out. I instructed a electrical report which I always do when personally purchasing for peace of mind. Guess what: The wiring was dangerous (2 opinions received ) and needed a rewire and new consumer unit. The question is How many other rental properties in the UK have similar faulty wiring and are a accident waiting to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richlist Posted September 19, 2020 Report Share Posted September 19, 2020 Probably quite a few but, 2 or 3 years from now most of them, if they remain rentals, will have been fixed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bil8999 Posted September 20, 2020 Report Share Posted September 20, 2020 hi, 10 of my rentals have now been tested and brought up to required standard, £100 for test plus we complete any works if required , thankfully not much needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poopsterfire Posted September 21, 2020 Report Share Posted September 21, 2020 This does not apply for resident (live-in) landlords who have lodgers afaik. If it does, please someone correct me. I believe it only applies to live-out landlords. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carryon Regardless Posted September 30, 2020 Report Share Posted September 30, 2020 My test of the mt flat is to be Monday, T is pretty much on the doorstep waiting for keys. Of course Wales is imposing more Covid restrictions, even for N Wales, as I write. I can only hope to achieve this new rental prior to the Heddlu turning me back to England as the journey being non essential. Anyway I've just spoken to a local electrical firm in attempt to clarify requirements for the inspection. My downlighters need upgrading to fire rated units, already delivered from Screwfix the new LED units are going in tomorrow. I have been having trouble sourcing replacement metal clad consumer units (fuse boxes) to suit the need. I guess there is a high demand. But Sparky chap says as long as all circuits are safe, and protected by RCCB breakers the metal clad enclosures aren't needed, a bit of a surprise that. Essentially if the regulations were met at the time of install then that is good. So now I hope to obtain a couple of RCCD's to replace the main switches, and that should suffice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melboy Posted September 30, 2020 Author Report Share Posted September 30, 2020 One of my tenants has actually contacted a 19th edition registered electrician who is a friend of his who will come and carry out the necessary checks and issue the new 5 year landlords electrical safety certificate for me for............£70! If this happens then it's a case of Stella coming his way. 😄 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIP-OFF BRITAIN- Rogue Traders Posted October 5, 2020 Report Share Posted October 5, 2020 On 7/31/2020 at 7:16 AM, Melboy said: Just following up my own topic................ So I have had 3 electrical quotes come in for just one property. ( 1 bed flat ). 1 quote was at Mates trade rates at £500 and the other 2 quotes were £575 and £625. All quotes returned were for replacement "fuse boards" and 5 year certification. None were interested in given certification unless a brand new fuse board was installed. One of the quotes was by a Fella who had issued a landlords certificate on the property 4 years ago and didn't insist on a new fuse board back then did he. Shakes head! So it does look like to me that electrical contractors will not issue a certificate unless the latest edition fuse board is installed in the property. I have several properties that have to be done so I am considering trying a contract basis to see what prices can be achieved. WOW! What's the name and contact details of your electrician as mine is charging me over £900 for one property (Economy 7 DB1 & DB2 consumer units) and over £700 for another property (18th edition 10 way Dual RCD consumer unit). Of course both bathroom lights need replacing with an IP rated LED bulkhead - which seems to be the norm with this rip-off electricians. I'm based in Milton Keynes and would appreciate any feedback from other landlords, or electricians as need my consumer units (fuse boxes) replaced asap. Thank you. Email me at: mentmorelettings@yahoo.co.uk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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