Jump to content

New Law: Landlords Must Perform Electrical Checks If Letting Properties After 1st July 2020


Melboy

Recommended Posts

A little extra.

Our properties are no longer domestic properties as can be demonstrated by us requiring elect certs each 5 years. Off topic but in Wales any 'stuff' left by a T must be disposed of in a commercial manner and records retained for 2 years.

But the elec regs state that a new inspection should be carried out at change of occupancy. another cost we should factor in for each tenancy.  This is more easy answer legislation in my view as I can see changes of T at the flats in less than a year,.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 months later...
  • Replies 72
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

A little useful info for the inspections.

I have a contractor in play to carry out mine. For a 3 bed terrace he has quoted £190, I forgot to confirm if he's vat registered but tbh  I find that acceptable even so.

My consumer units are split load, so essentially all but lights and alarm are not  so far RCB protected. I have been fitting RCBO's (these are individual cct RCB's that replace the MCB) so as to ensure all ccts are RCB protected.

My 1st inspection in Wales didn't require the consumer to be upgraded to metal clad, so aware of differing interpretations on this I've just had a chat with  said chap.

All my consumer units are plastic and if they are sited that they would prevent escape if they ignited they must be changed. If there is any exit that means passing the consumer can be avoided then no need. I have some by the front door, but as there is a back door I'm ok to leave the consumer as is.

I've been replacing my older downlighters with LED type, complete with smoke hood. If there is no room above the lights then there is no need for that upgrade. I have 3 flats on the top floor so the 2 flats that I haven't already replaced the downlights in can be left, till later when more convenient in my case.

When I had enthusiasm for renting I fitted 12 low volt (12 volt via transformer) downlights into the ground floor of one of my houses. That's going to be significant floor lifting to replace with 240 volt wiring, and smoke hoods of course.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The last of my properties is being certified next week. It has been a very expensive time for me but there is not a lot you can do about that.  What I do know is that with all this electrical work being undertaken and 2 boiler replacements and much more my tax bill for this year is going to be much reduced.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

RobC, not enough information for us to take a guess at.

Sharing your property? That would make them a lodger so no, but you still need to ensure they are in a safe environment.

Do they have exclusive right to an independent property? Then most likely but what agreement is in place? Are there benefits in kind? I'm not sure what situation would relieve you of landlord responsibilities there possibly it is more complicated than they being a tenant.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for the reply Carryon Regardless. It's a self contained flat which a family member is 'looking after' for me - ie paying council tax, utility bills etc, all of which are in their name. It's an ongoing arrangement until they've saved a deposit to buy their own property. Any advice much appreciated. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Rob C The answer is Yes.  My Son regularly comes across this situation regarding Gas safety certificates whereby the owner of the property will say " I am renting to a family member (or a  friend of the family ) so I don't need a gas safety certificate" )   Not true........You do. 

                  It doesn't matter if you are not receiving rent, you are the legal owner of that property and it is a requirement that you are a landlord even if you don't consider yourself to be one due to not receiving monetary payment.

                        The same ruling applies to Electrical safety certificates from April 1st 2021.

In the event of anything happening in your property to the person(s) living there then I can guarantee you that your insurance company will not pay out any compensation and would refer you to what I have indicated above.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Let me say that I agree you should have gas & electrical certification.

However, I was under the impression that for there to be a rental agreement, there needs to be a consideration ie a payment. If there is no payment, there is no contract, therefore there is no tenant or landlord created.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Richlist said:

Let me say that I agree you should have gas & electrical certification.

However, I was under the impression that for there to be a rental agreement, there needs to be a consideration ie a payment. If there is no payment, there is no contract, therefore there is no tenant or landlord created.

Nope.      Not the case RL.  Just think of how the law and the Courts would determine this matter of a say a person being injured/killed through carbon monoxide or electrocution through a person being the occupant of a family/friends property where you as the owner of that property don't actually live in it and gas/electric certificates were not carried out.  Duty of care and responsibility?  Does that make any sense?

If you dig deep into it you will find the definitive answer. I can quote one legal case that happened in Royal Wootton Bassett some 10 or 12 years ago. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You may well be right but..........Let me play devil's advocate.

I go off to Spain for a months holiday, my sister in law moves in to ' look after the place' and my dog whilst I'm away.  Its my PPR so I don't legally need a gas or electrical certificate. Problem occurs whilst I'm away.........what's the difference ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, Richlist said:

You may well be right but..........Let me play devil's advocate.

I go off to Spain for a months holiday, my sister in law moves in to ' look after the place' and my dog whilst I'm away.  Its my PPR so I don't legally need a gas or electrical certificate. Problem occurs whilst I'm away.........what's the difference ?

Well, I suppose the case of injury or death would be based on it's merits I guess. House sitting and a 30 day holiday away may well not require safety certificates etc. but there again to quote the OP he has family paying council tax and utility bills so in this case it can be regarded as a place of permanent residence for those occupants as it has effectively been handed over. There is a verbal contract isn't there and as I understand it you do not need an written tenancy contract.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The trouble with calling someone a lodger is that it suggests or implies that rent is being paid. Having a friend or family member stay in your home where no payment is being made, especially for short periods would be unlikely to trigger a need for safety certs in anyone's mind.

I suspect that in 99.99% of situations where people are letting people stay temporarily in their PPR, for any length of time  they do not get a gas or electrical safety certificate.

If I think back to my childhood there were situations where e.g. Cousins would spend some of their summer holidays staying with us or when a family member went into hospital their child stayed with us for a few weeks. Safety certificates were never ever considered.......which is not surprising.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have done a little research on this matter and there are a few pointers that would suggest you still have to abide by the rules of landlording even if no rent is being paid by a family member.

One example below.

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/buytolet/article-4487684/Can-let-property-family-member-no-rent.html

It also reminds that around 5 years ago I was paying the annual insurance on a property that my Son owns and he had a tenant in that property. I had my reasons for doing this at the time and then I thought should I be doing this as I do not own the property so I contacted the insurance company and asked them the question of where we stood on this matter and the answer came back that I should not be paying the insurance premium on behalf of my Son as any future insurance claim would be null and void.

                      To be fair they were very decent about it all and made the policy changes at no extra cost to me and gave my Son a discount on his next renewal as I had been paying premiums for 3 years in blissful ignorance of what I was doing was incorrect.

So for the OP on this subject you must decide what is best for you and what you do but I personally believe there is enough evidence out there to suggest that you are effectively a landlord even though no rent is being received.

..................and on that note I shall gracefully bow out of the discussion.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Why bow out Mel? It's an intelligent discussion that may be invaluable to others.

It does seem to me that comments are relevant and in the main are opinion. The problem there is in the event interpretation could well mean it progresses to a court for an ultimate decision. That often seems to be the way, that it gets passed up and the passer is relieved of the responsibility of the decision.

In that scenario the defence is expensive, as the vultures enjoy the game (and revenue), the stress is life shortening. The effort becomes great as the vultures need input to progress, both sides will be demanding.

Personally I think I would terminate the arrangement, or offer for the occupant to stay if they pay for the compliance measures. That of course pretty much confirms a tenancy as they are paying toward the property, so time for a contract.

All that crap (and much, much more than so far discussed here) for something that should be simple.

Alternatively take advice, hope it's good advice, and add to the cost.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Carryon Regardless said:

Why bow out Mel? It's an intelligent discussion that may be invaluable to others.

 

I can't think of anything more to say that would help or convince the OP why I think they should have Gas & Electric certificates in place.   😀

If you check out the Government HSE website it also states that in the OP situation of renting with no payment to family / friends members that there are certain regulation conditions that will apply.

It is now Rob C's choice to heed the advice or ignore it as he wishes.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Have a feeling i am going to have to have the Fuse board replaced also in 2 properties in Luton area and certification. Will call the agents on Monday to get this underway.

Appreciate this post Melboy, we had safety checks done by electrician and PAT testing but didn't realise on this law. Went back through pics before letting latest property and magnified the Fuse box from a full from picture. That looks like a seriously old fuse box.

Fuse Board Dorrington Close.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oh! Yes! That is a historic collectors item.  😀   This is a definite replacement if there ever was to be one.

I haven't met an electrician yet that will sign off an old fuse wired consumer box and if they are they shouldn't be doing this ............according to my electrician.

My last electrical certification property is being done next Wednesday. It has been a very expensive month for me what with 4 fuse board certifications and a new boiler in one of the properties (plus other heating work) and another boiler change on the horizon in another property but my Son has managed to fix this combi Worcester boiler but at approximately 12 years old things are breaking off.

We know the fan is next as it does make the odd strange grinding noise but Son has a spare fan from another knackered boiler he replaced recently on standby to fit if needed but come the Summer it is a new boiler whatever happens.

The expensive joys of being a landlord. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If that's the only egress and it combusting would prevent egress then metal.

You could replace the rewireable fuses with MCB replacements. Then you would ned protect the whole property with an RCB (not ideal as all goes down with one fault). 

Better to replace with a new split load unit, and hope the fixed wiring isn't failing under test.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have a similar unit in one of my properties which has Memera rewirable cartridge fuses. It controls the storage heaters & immersion heater which are on the night circuit.

The separate main fuse board has already been replaced with a more modern unit.

Fortunately I don't have the expense of replacing the older unit.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That sounds like my flats, MEM plastic 4 way board with replaceable cartridge fuses.

Cartridge is preferable to rewindable as the rewireable is too easy to abuse, and less reliable in it's protection than a cartridge.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Below from the government website is an interesting read. It seems to suggest that if you have a current Safety Certificate then this does not have to be done again until the 5 year renewal is due as long as at the time it was deemed safe but best practice is to comply to the new Regs. When the new certificate is due there is no grey area it will have to comply and work carried out to make it compliant. 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/electrical-safety-standards-in-the-private-rented-sector-guidance-for-landlords-tenants-and-local-authorities/guide-for-landlords-electrical-safety-standards-in-the-private-rented-sector#the-report 

If an inspection took place and a satisfactory report was issued before the 18th edition of the Wiring Regulations came into force, but less than 5 years ago, will a landlord always need to have the property inspected again as soon as the Electrical Safety Regulations come into force?

Regulation 3 requires that landlords have the electrical installation inspected and tested at intervals of no longer than every 5 years. Electrical safety standards (the 18th edition of the Wiring Regulations) must be met throughout the period of that tenancy.

The 18th edition of the Wiring Regulations came into effect in 2019, so if a landlord already has a report for a property that was carried out after this date and has complied with all the other requirements of the Regulations, they won’t have to have another inspection for 5 years, provided the report does not state that the next inspection should take place sooner.

Existing installations that have been installed in accordance with earlier editions of the Wiring Regulations may not comply with the 18th edition in every respect. This does not necessarily mean that they are unsafe for continued use or require upgrading.

It is good practice for landlords with existing reports to check these reports and decide whether the electrical installation complies with electrical safety standards. Landlords might also wish to contact the inspector who provided a report to ensure the installation complies with electrical safety standards.

If an inspection took place and a satisfactory report was issued before the 18th edition of the Wiring Regulations came into force, but less than 5 years ago, will a landlord always need to have the property inspected again as soon as the Electrical Safety Regulations come into force?

Regulation 3 requires that landlords have the electrical installation inspected and tested at intervals of no longer than every 5 years. Electrical safety standards (the 18th edition of the Wiring Regulations) must be met throughout the period of that tenancy.

The 18th edition of the Wiring Regulations came into effect in 2019, so if a landlord already has a report for a property that was carried out after this date and has complied with all the other requirements of the Regulations, they won’t have to have another inspection for 5 years, provided the report does not state that the next inspection should take place sooner.

Existing installations that have been installed in accordance with earlier editions of the Wiring Regulations may not comply with the 18th edition in every respect. This does not necessarily mean that they are unsafe for continued use or require upgrading.

It is good practice for landlords with existing reports to check these reports and decide whether the electrical installation complies with electrical safety standards. Landlords might also wish to contact the inspector who provided a report to ensure the installation complies with electrical safety standards.

Will all installations have to comply with the 18th edition, even if they were installed before this edition was in force?

The Regulations state that a landlord must ensure that electrical safety standards are met, and that investigative or remedial work is carried out if the report requires this.

The electrical installation should be safe for continued use. In practice, if the report does not require investigative or remedial work, the landlord will not be required to carry out any further work.

Reports can also recommend improvement, in addition to requiring remedial work. If a report only recommends improvement but does not require any further investigative or remedial work to be carried out – indicated with a ‘C3’ classification code – then while it would be good practice to carry out this work, it would not be required to comply with the Regulations.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Nev. M yes I have read thoroughly the government requirements but the problem I had is that I could not find an electrician willing to sign off and certificate one of my properties with a fuse wired consumer unit for the 5 year period.

There is also an upgrade of making sure you have the 2 x thicker electrical supply "tails" fitted as well before any signing off and a electrical cerificate.

I just decided just to go ahead and and have these upgrades completed for peace of mind that the property was electrically safe in all respects and with the RCD earth trip protection in place which was lacking in 2 of the houses.

I have paid £400 for each property on a contract style basis which is better than some of the quotes I had ranging from £500 to £650 each property.  Done and dusted and peace of mind for me in having the latest regulated electrical consumer units fitted. 

 If I decided to sell one of the properties I shall get that money back in the selling price but I am waiting to see how the CGT affects me before deciding on that.  I do have the added bonus of a large capital value between what I paid for the property and what I would obtain in the selling price and this makes my £400 outlay miniscule in the big picture.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think it was a good call Melboy, your post definitely opened my eyes to what to expect also. I will also be getting it done for piece of mind and because that one i showed a picture of looks pre-Boar War even though it passed the last Cert :)

I am not planning on selling any time soon but very interested also in the CGT statement to come as at some point closer to retirement I will be considering this option. 

All the best Nev

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hurray! Result!  I do not have to have a new consumer unit because there is an earth trip switch already incorporated and circuit RCD's. So just the electrical inspection and certificate  required.

Mined you I did re-read the Government website on this new certification and I failed to see why I would need a new consumer unit and would have challenged any electrician telling me I needed one.

"Existing installations that have been installed in accordance with earlier editions of the Wiring Regulations may not comply with the 18th edition in every respect. This does not necessarily mean that they are unsafe for continued use or require upgrading".

If you have an old fuse wired consumer unit then I cannot see any electrician signing off your electrical installation which in my view is the correct thing to do.

 

That's £300 saved.  👍

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...