Damage by third party

[Mortitia]

Got called out at 5am this morning by hysterical girl tenant as someone had smashed the glass door to her flat.  She comes home from clubbing at 3.40am and finds out skin of door smashed, goes inside and 2 minutes later a man throws a large rock through the 2nd skin of DG door.  Police have been.  I got door boarded but have refused to pay for replacement for time being. (Not claiming on insurance.)

Quiet but sharp, worldly girl optician, lives alone, got friends not usually a problem.  Asked her if she upset anyone - Facebook that sort of thing - she says not.

2 days before I noticed tagging on the wall opposite the property and on my side wall. Zero tolerance of this in my area by the council.  No tagging anywhere else in the area. I got the tagging cleaned off yesterday.  I'm suspecting the 2 things are connected.

I'm just at the 4 month stage in a 6 month tenancy - should I ask for possession?

 

[Carryon Regardless]

Well Mortitia feel this one is a judgement call.

It sounds like a disgruntled ex or wannabe of the lass but has she invited this? Is it likely to re occur? Should it be your problem anyway.

Generally in these situations I leave investigations to the plod, realising they have little interest. I prioritise my investment but consider the revenue.Every new tenancy comes with losses.

[Mortitia]

Yeah went into the ex BF thing - unlikely but she does to a lot of internet so questioned her on that. The man she saw run away was in late 30s and she is 21 - not likely to be a lover.  He was seen to run off with a gang of others.

Boarding up has cost £100 and £220 to replace the glass - won't be doing it until she has gone or culprit caught.

Not claiming on insurance as that will put the premium sky high. I've got 4 letting units in that lump.

Have zero faith in plod. 

[Grampa]

Tricky one Mortitia.

The tagging I guess you have to swallow.

The door is a bit of a judgement call as COR states. I guess you have a number of options.

1. Play hardball and tell the tenant she is responsible and try to get payment from her but I wouldn't feel confidant if it went to dispute.

 2. Same as above but offer a compromise and pay half.

3. Pay yourself as the tenants are only responsible for damage to glass when caused by themselves or guests. There is something about this on the ombudsman website and most AST state this as well.

4. Tell the tenants she pays otherwise she will be given notice.

5. Claim from the insurance on the condition the tenant pays the excess and any increase in the policy. Not as easy as it seems as it could take 4-5 years to get the no-claim bonus back.

I agree with your comment about the plod they are bloody useless and not fit for purpose. This is a fairly recent opinion of them from me over the last couple of years. 

[Grampa]

I think the bottom line is that unless you can prove the tenant or guests caused the damage the landlord pays, as an obligation under section 11 

 

[Richlist]

How would any of you expect the police to find the guy who broke the glass ? If there is no info forthcoming, no cctv, no evidence identifying who......it does seem a rather impossible task.

[Melboy]

Difficult for Plod to get involved in this case with no evidence for them to act on. They would be interested if you have CCTV showing the culprit involved and I have recent experience of this when a thief stole some items off a driveway but didn't realise he was being filmed and recorded. Police got him and prosecuted within 2 weeks.

[Richlist]

Quite.

I despair sometimes at the stereotyping. The police do make mistakes like any other large organisation but they can't perform miracles.

The chances of catching the culprit given the information so far are non existent.......the police, given their limited and dwindling resources, are far better employed doing something that has a better chance of success.

[Mortitia]

Thanks guys for those thoughts. No CCtv but I am thinking about installing it as part of the building is my Airbnb property - it would be a complicated system though as I am 12 miles away and would want to access the footage.  We have got Samsung CCtv at home and it is wonderful but cost £2500 2 years ago.

She did get a description and there will be CCtv footage of him on the forecourt of a Tesco late shop opposite where the men were hanging around. I'll get onto that tomorrow.

The more I've thought about it there is no doubt she was targeted - bound to be something to do with Facebook or similar.

When I started asking the awkward questions she went totally into - 'there is not enough light when I come in the gate' - my reply was 'get a torch then, this is not the nanny state'.  Then ' the shower is faulty and keeps knocking the power off' my reply was ' why pick now to tell me about it'. 

Guilty of upsetting someone I think.  Good idea on asking for half payment - will try that when I get round to reglazing.

 

[Carryon Regardless]

Re the Plod.

I've found them to vary in interest in different areas. Prestatyn I was asked to evict my t by them to reduce the demand on their resources, I proceeded. Later the T ripped the arial wire full height from the building as he departed. 2 witnesses saw him and also walk away with it. So Criminal damage and theft. When asked by Plod he said it was an accident so end of.

Next time they want my assistance they can want.

[Grampa]

RL yes you are correct it is stereotyping and tarring them all with the same brush. But having grown up with a healthy respect of the police and authority but over the last few years I have lost all respect of the police and judicial system.

 

I have known police to blatantly lie and change statements, I have seen them cherry pick evidence to get (try) and get an conviction without any concern for justice. I have known them to willfully withhold evidence that would  prove innocence or at least put a very big question mark over the case. 

 

I have known them to avoid checking certain evidence because they know it would cast doubt on their case which is another example that justice isn’t their target but a conviction is. 

If I ever had to give a police interview I will explain very politely that until I get proper legal representation and or any questions in advance in writing its "no comment"  

 

I have seen with my own eyes CPS barristers blatantly twist facts and withhold evidence. Once again without any concern for justice it was all about winning.

 

I have seen judges act like petulant children in court and obviously and very visibly take a dislike to someone making it difficult to get a fair equal hearing. 

So I make no apologies  for being cynical of the plod and their abilities. 

 

[Mortitia]

Here is an update on this case.  On the Monday a policeman called and my tenant arrived in my office same time.  She had remembered now sober that a man she vaguely new and whom she had spurned earlier in the evening had appeared at the seen before the police arrived.  She was able to show me a pic of him on Snap Chat - oh the wonders of social media!

I spent 2.5 hours trawling through CCTV of 2 local company buildings with really helpful staff and found that 1 had very good coverage of the entrance to this flat. 

Sure enough at 03.09 hours the culprit (the one in the Snap Chat pic) comes into view carrying the large pebble/rock and hangs around for nearly 2 hours waiting for my tenant to arrive - she then turns up with another suitor both pissed.  They enter then rock man goes in after about 9 mins and runs out having smashed door.  He runs down street and into the driveway of an empty house. (It was getting light by this time.) Then he slinks back to slump in a church hall doorway adjacent to my property.  Whilst girl tenant and new man are running around calling police etc new man 'discovers' perpetrator in doorway and asks if he has seen anything - all this can be seen in body language.  Perpetrator then comes to comfort tenant who has collapsed on the ground - still under the influence.

I logged all the times to the second and emailed this to the investigating officer so all he had to do was turn up view and copy the data.  The rock carrier is known to them and is about to get nicked but they want me to accept payment for the damage and he gets a caution!  I am being treated as the victim as tenant is afraid of reprisals.  Feeling sorry for her I have not issued S21 yet. 

Is a caution enough? I don't think so as he was intent on hurting her.  What do you all think?

 

[Richlist]

A caution is not sufficient  enough punishment for the crime, in my opinion.

[Carryon Regardless]

I wouldn't concern yourself with the affect on the T. Her life style suggests these situations are part of her 'East Enders' attitude to life.

There will be more dramatic situations.

A protective 'suitor' will sort this, or another, situation.

Stay well clear of involvement with her this is a no win situation/s for you, consider your business advantage only.

[kerbut]

This precisely why we do not have single women tenants any more after the episode of the one who used to scream whilst having sex a couple of years ago  and the complaints from other tenants being disturbed by the noise.

[Richlist]

I've let property to lots of single women over the last 15 years.....I'd estimate around 20 + individuals and never had a real problem.

The worst issues I've had have been occasional late rent payments and iron burn marks in places other than the ironing board. I have had the occasional comment from neighbours about my tenants being noisy in the bedroom........so what!  Balanced against their cleanliness, tidyness and a general pleasure to deal with they would be top of my list of people I'd let my property to.

Rarely had a single woman hand a property back in a mess. On the other hand single men often don't understand how vac cleaners work or the general concept of ' leave it clean and tidy please'.

"

 

[Carryon Regardless]

I've found more women have a self respect to tidy, but not all.

The younger attractive woman is a greater risk than the man. They will attract the admirers, the wannabees. Here we see one that exercises his frustrations on the one thing he associates with her. I've seen others that will want to show their ability to protect the lady, against me. Even when not required. And of course these guys can all decorate.