Deposit

[burremr]

Hi all, can a landlord make providing evidence of the utilities being fully cleared a condition of the deposit return. I have another landlord doing this but not sure if this is actually permitted under the registered deposit schemes. Are there other circumstances where it is allowed?

[Richlist]

Don't see the point of doing it !

If the tenant is responsible for paying for the utilities it's never gonna become the landlords responsibility provided they notify the utilities of the moving dates.

I know some landlords ask for this info......perhaps they have nothing else to fill their day and they just need something to do !

The landlord doesn't make the rules regarding deposits.....they should now be in one of the protection schemes. The schemes make the decisions not the landlords....so I guess the short answer to your question is NO.

[Carryon Regardless]

I can't see why it would be needed. The utilities would normally be the responibility of the T, as must be in your case for them to be cleared. Any outstanding balance would be up to the utility company to recover from the T and not the LL's concern.

The only issue I can see can occur is returning and unwanted token meter to a normal credit (pay by bill) meter.

[Melboy]

The current ruling regarding utilities is that within the AST it must state that all utilities are the responsibility of the tenant and the landlord or his agent must inform the utility company of the name of the person responsible for paying the bills and to provide a meter reading at tenant changeover.

If you stick to this procedure you, as a landlord, are watertight over the question of unpaid gills recovery costs.

[Grampa]

Not sure if council tax comes under the heading of utilities but if a property is a HMO or has sharers on individual ASTS the

landlord will be made responsible for paying any unpaid council tax bill if not paid by the occupier's.

[Mortitia]

Here is a recent tale confirming the above (not an HMO property):-

One of my tenants moved out having given notice that was to be 6 weeks. She wanted to be in new place quickly and here last day of contract with me was 27 July.

By 19th July she was asking for deposit back, had put the utilities back into my name and council tax on 6th July. Although she understood her responsibilities fully she was trying it on and wanted to 'do a deal' as she had left some curtains for my delectation.

Obviously I was not having any of it. Called utilities (B Gas) and they accepted my end date of 27 July without further docs saying they would just add this extra cost to her new bill . C tax likewise. Just released deposit.

Most ASTs say tenant is responsible for utilities/CT and you can enforce that.

[Richlist]

......and of course as we all recognise, there are some people who don't pay their council tax and some areas of the country where councils fight a difficult battle to collect them. Sometimes, as in the case of my local council, unpaid c/tax is placed with debt collection agencies and some of it is eventually written off. The rest of us will always pick up the shortfall by paying extra the following year so that accounts can be balanced.

[Grampa]

I avoid HMO or sharers on individual ast's so the issue doesn't effect me. But even if you did have it written into the contract that the tenants were liable for C/Tax with these type of tenancies it wouldn't count as statute overrides contract law.

The easy way round it is for any landlord to include the cost of the C/Tax in the (slightly higher) rent and the landlord pays it himself.

I regularly get tenants trying their luck and informing the council that their responsibility for C/Tax ended earlier than it really does. Normally this is due to the tenant overlapping the new tenancy by a week or so with the old property. A quick email to the council tax office always seems to correct the "error" and they get charged for both.

[Melboy]

Just had the experience of tenant try-on with utilities and council tax by ending their responsibilities by around 10 days and putting everything back in my name having told him not to do this.

I always get outgoing tenant to read and sign a dated meter reading and give them a copy as they leave. This is your best defence against any comebacks should there be any.

All sorted out by me in a flash and tenant informed by email ( no reply of course!)

I did mention to him it was advisable not to delay payment as debt collector's will add at least £250 to the outstanding amount in a very short space of time.

[Carryon Regardless]

As outgoing T's are often less than keen to keep good ethics it's usually the council tax that is transfered back to my name early also.

With Denbighshire there is still a 6 month council tax free allowance on empty unfurnished properties so I don't often get flustered.

Trouble is if there is a long void and the property then attracts a bill for the tax it's going to be less easy to claim back from T or g'tor. As it's generally only a week or so I would have to consider effort / chance of recovery.

[Grampa]

COR we used to have the 6 months C/tax free allowance for empty unfurnished periods before they stopped them recently. But when it was in place I believed it was for up to 6 months on each empty period but it wasn't. It was totalled up so over a period of time we found the allowance could have been used up on some properties.

I may be worth checking the same rules don't apply for your area because if they do you don't want to waste any of the allowance on some cocky ex-tenant who is trying their luck to same a few quid and using up your 6 months bank of free period which you may need for yourself if you were doing renovating works or had the property empty if on the market for sale.

[Richlist]

My part of Essex had the same set up as Grampa....i.e. 6 months concession (empty & unfurnished) for lifetime of the property.

Fortunately my local council were rubbish at keeping records & failed occasionally to identify those that had already used up their 6 month allowance.

My council has now reduced the concession to 3 months.

Each council is free to set the rules as best suits their financial position, so some councils will have zero concession/ discounts.

[Carryon Regardless]

Yes it may be worth checking that one out.

An issue I often have is a HB T relocates and council tax credits transfer to their new property on the day of the move. The T of course is liable for council tax, on the AST, till the end of a notice period.

One tried that recently, no notice and clearly trying to get one back on me with the state of the returned flat. When the council tax bill arrived I rang informed that the T still had liability. They asked if it was still furnished and as he had left belongings he became liable again up to the date I said I had removed all his cr*p. There was a bit of satisfaction with that one and it taught me a useful lesson for the future.

[Grampa]

Sometimes you have to remind the council what their own rules and regs are. Some rules are national throughout England but some elements can be made up at a local level.

One they like to forget and is a national rule across all councils is if your tenant had a tenancy of at least 6 months (not HMO) the tenant remains liable until correct notice is given by the tenant.

So if a tenant leaves without notice or part way thro a monthly period they still have to pay.

[Melboy]

No CT allowances for empty property here.

[Mortitia]

In super trendy Poole is it is 1 month, Bournemouth 3 months and East Dorset/Christchurch 1 month but in Richmond upon Thames it is still 6 months.

[Carryon Regardless]

So a potential T informed Denbighshire she was taking tenancy from 21st July. She was ahead of herself as I rejected her as she had fallen out with her g'tor.

a few days later I emailed the council tax dept informing them of this and another new T to different flat.

They have given me a fresh 6 months tax free period from the 22nd even though there was no occupancy. I would tell them but I wouldn't like to embarrass them with their mistake.

[kerbut]

Dorchester and Weymouth > 3 months

[Richlist]

Quite right to CoR.

People generally are far to quick to point out others mistakes. It takes a very special person to refrain from passing comment. I should think they will be extremely gratefully to you for not embarrassing them unnecessarily.

Gold star awarded to you for being thoughtfull and having consideration for the feelings of your hard working local council staff.

[Carryon Regardless]

Well RL I'm that sort of guy, and so many think us LL's are all greedy low lifes.

I'll bet Matt Allwrongwrite wouldn't appreciate my thoughfulness.