When is a tenancy closed ?

[Carryon Regardless]

In a periodic tenancy where a notice period ends on 31st December but the T hasn't caused the property to be ready for re rent would you agree that the tenancy has run on for another period of 1 month ?

I've 2 of these where one property is likely to need cleaning and still with tenant belongings not yet removed,

another that will need cleaning and some repairs.

Generally I guess we all just charge for the few extra days required to have the property ready but as we LL's are so closely monitored for any little glitch in our following of procedure that will then be used for month/s of tenancy extension, with or without rents, I am feeling less generous than I used to. Whichever way non LL's view it we are expected to take the hit.

[Richlist]

You do need to be proactive rather than just have an expectation that everything will be OK.

When a tenancy is about to end its best to ensure your tenants KNOW what is expected. I do this by giving them a letter detailing all that I require of them. You might like to add a note of what penalties they are likely to face if the requirements are not met.

Did you tell your tenants what was expected or just assume they would already know what was required ?

[kerbut]

.RL wrote :

When a tenancy is about to end its best to ensure your tenants KNOW what is expected. I do this by giving them a letter detailing all that I require of them. You might like to add a note of what penalties they are likely to face if the requirements are not met.

Richlist did post a few years ago (dont know if it was here or on the other forum we used ) a checkout letter he sent to tenants ,I copied this and added a couple of paragraphs tailoring it to my needs ,it works well.

[Richlist]

I've reposted the sample letter that you can change to suit your individual circumstances.....

Your name & address

Date

IMPORTANT - This letter contains important information for the return of your deposit.

Dear XXXXX,

Re: End of Your Tenancy Agreement for XXXXXXRental Address.

Thank you for notifying us today that you wish to end your tenancy of XXXXXXX. The earliest your tenancy can end is XXXXX 2014. This letter is to advise you how you should leave the property when you move out.

1. Its important that you leave the property in a clean & tidy condition. General wear & tear is accepted but any damage, breakages, missing items or anything that is not clean may result in a deduction from your deposit. If you are unsure then please contact us. Its important that the property is handed back to us in a condition that is suitable for new tenant(s) to move in immediately. We prefer to return complete deposits as this means we have had no work to do.

You should ensure that the whole of the property is clean including (but not only):-

• Carpets.

• Curtains.

• Lampshades/ light fittings.

• All kitchen equipment including walls, floors & tiles.

• All bathroom equipment including walls, floors & tiles.

• Windows.

• Any marks on walls, woodwork, door frames, skirting boards etc have been cleaned off.

• Any mirrors or glass have been cleaned.

• All light bulbs & smoke detectors are working.

• The oven & hob are clean.

• The fridge & freezer are defrosted (please ensure water from fridge/ freezer does not run onto floor & damage kitchen units/ floor coverings).

• Any soft furnishings supplied have been cleaned, this includes- shower curtains, table cloths, net curtains & floor mats etc.

• Anything else that has been provided & that you will hand back to the landlord should be cleaned.

2. Your deposit is held within the Tenancy Deposit Scheme operated by XXXXXX . Payment of all or part of the deposit will normally be made within 10 working days of the end of the tenancy.

3. Please ensure you provide us with a forwarding address.

4. If you have changed the electricity &/or gas supplier you must provide the details. Currently our records show XXXXXXXX as the supplier. Please advise us if this is NOT correct.

5. You must also ensure that :

• All instruction books are left at the property.

• All the keys are returned.

• You have contacted the utilities: Electric, Gas, Water, Sewerage & Council Tax.

• You have made a note of all the meter readings.

• You dispose of all rubbish before you leave.

• You have removed all of your personal belongings.

• Note: Royal Mail can redirect your mail for a charge, for up to one year……but we are happy to forward your mail on to your new address for a week or two.

6. When you leave, turn OFF all gas & electrical appliances, ensure all the doors & windows are locked and post your keys through the letterbox.

If you are unsure of anything, please contact us.

Yours sincerely

[Carryon Regardless]

...... and the answer is ?

[Grampa]

In a periodic tenancy where a notice period ends on 31st December but the T hasn't caused the property to be ready for re rent would you agree that the tenancy has run on for another period of 1 month ?

No. If the tenant has give notice to vacate which has be accepted or moves out on the last day of the fixed term of the agreement that's it. Any damages or cleaning etc will be taken from the deposit as normal. But how strict you chose to be when rectifying the dilapidation's is up to you as long as it is justified against the inventory.

We are very fair when we do check-out but if I had a tenant who had given us a hard time and was difficult I would go through the property with a fine tooth comb and charge for everything I could and not necessary use the cheapest contractors.

[Richlist]

Did you tell your tenants what was expected or just assume they would already know what was required ?

.......am I right in suspecting the latter then ?

[Carryon Regardless]

I thought I was the pessimistic one who looks on the black side RL, although not usually about others procedures.

True enough I don't send the letter you suggest, not a silly idea though.

I don't believe though that we should see ourselves as responsible for the continual educating of other adults, but I accept it is very often to our advantage to do so.

As I've said in another post, there needs to be change in the perception that LL's should be responsible for so much, well I sort of said that and certainly alluded to it.

When I become aware that a T is intending to quit I send a 'Notice to Quit' form for them to complete.

This asks for them to detail the date and time the property shall be returned to my possession.

It requests the utility providers and their contact numbers, as so many T's enjoy changing the provider even though the AST prohibits this.

This doesn't copy so well but the gist is there.

I the above named Tenant give notice of intention to terminate the tenancy for the above named property. I understand that it is my responsibility to pay all due monies to Landlord, service providers, and local council charges for the above property and be responsible for the security of the property and be bound by the terms of the latest tenancy agreement entered into for the named property up to completion of the notice period and correct surrender of the property to the Landlord. I understand that the property cannot be considered as surrendered to the Landlord until all belongings of the Tenant have been removed from the property unless otherwise agreed in writing by the Landlord. No persons shall be held financially accountable for the disposal of contents that remain within the property following the date the property is returned to the possession of the Landlord. Vacant inspection of the property shall be carried out by the Landlord or his agent prior to calculation of final account.

Your list has value of course, but how far should we go. The more we are seen to do the more we are given responsibility for.

For example, do you ensure that your T's have read and fully understand your lists by perhaps having them sign confirmation of such, and witnessed by a non biased party?

Or is it reasonable to be able to stand in court and say any reasonably minded person should understand the basics of responsibility regarding hygene and damage repairs?

We know who the courts will favour, and the DPS of course (but I'm looking to dump my involvement with that bunch). I've been reading the suggestions that we even need to give directions to a judge so that he can understand the law he is paid well to implement, often incorrectly against us.

I could go on and on about how this industry has evolved to be so heavily loaded against the interest of the LL, and the ever increasing risk to the LL but I'm not so sure you will recognise that RL. Where I don't share your view is that where a LL hasn't complied with each complicated, often ambiguous, confusing letter of legislation and used your lists that they deserve all ills that come their way.

[Grampa]

I do sort of agree. Tenants are adults and it isn't unreasonable to expect them to act in a adult responsible manner but it is the small minority that spoil it for everyone else and therefore we as landlords have to assume they will all act in that same irresponsible, selfish, childish manner. But in doing so we can save ourselves a world of stress, aggro. It is a sorry state of affairs but unfortunately the world we live it.

In the 7/8 years I have been doing this I have seen so many changes and hoops to jump through as a landlord/agent it is frightening and I wonder where it will all end.

[Carryon Regardless]

Grampa I'm sure you can see I can appreciate both sides of this.

If I don't consider from a T's point of view then I would be foolish as they are our business. Where I 'attempt' a little different than some others is to help them realise that I'm not there to change their nappies. Paying me a rent doesn't make me Daddy, bank manager, claim advisor, cleaner, care taker. It is difficult to do this without continual conflict with the less able minded. Those that are unable to appreciate the view of a businessman who is after all here for the profit, shame on me.

I am just venting somewhat, and also realise I have no need to preach to the already converted but legislation and the various bodies seem to wish to remove all possibility of us making a profit, and wish for us to devote all time to the lesser abled - so the state no longer needs to.

Over the years I have increased the admin efforts required by legislation. Often able to understand why it's there but still not seeing it as fair. Just another form of indirect taxation.

EPC,

deposit protection,

Hips (now gone),

annual gas cert (long in place and no resentment there),

selective licencing,

council tax on mt property to increase to 150% after 6 months (depending on the area),

repossession legislation that many could be forgiven for thinking is designed to trip us up,

requirements to investigate the correct status of immigrant T's,

to contradict legislation, local housing officer demanding property repairs where damage is T caused,

courts that favour T's claims/defence,

the latest, deposit protection that rewards corrupt claims against those that have done as they were told to - and no defence.

I am now at a point where I see that no matter what I do to meet the demands it cannot be enough.

The goal posts are moving too fast for me to have a chance of having a good shot at this. We learn the rules of the game only to find that they were the wrong rules we were given. Legislation penalises for wrong doing but for us there are some crazy penalties, and so often penalising for trying to do right and not having comprehensive understanding of some thing that so many professionals fail to understand.

To the original question.

I understand that our personal efforts are given to adverse situations 'for free'. It's so good that we can afford to do this. We can of course contract works out and charge, but this takes time and effort so often it's best to just get on with it.

My principle here is that if the property is unsuitable for re let then the lost rent should be compensated for. If a T has belongings still at a property he is using the place for storage. If due to T lifestyle the property requires works before re let then same, the T should compensate lost rents.

I'm not aware of part periods in legislation so only see a full period of 1 month. Although if a court grants repossession after say 14 days that would be a part period effectively.

[Melboy]

...............and it is going to get worse COR. You can bank on it.

Missing from your list will be tenant's electrical safety certificates every year (possibly). and not the 10 years as present. It is still in discussion stage at present......... but it will happen.

This is what my electrician has told me only last week. Another £80 to £100 added to the costs.

Hard-wired smoked alarms are also on the agenda for rented properties.

Electrical Consumer units over 5 years old to be replaced with the latest units.........also on the agenda.

[Richlist]

True enough I don't send the letter you suggest, not a silly idea though.

I arrange an inspection as soon as they say they going + I provide a standard letter + a visit to the property a few days before they move out. Its a pain in the arse.....I'd rather not do it AND sometimes its completely unnecessary but, it works virtually every time for me so has proven very cost effective both in time & money.

It requests the utility providers and their contact numbers, as so many T's enjoy changing the provider even though the AST prohibits this.

Its my understanding that regardless of what is in your AST, tenancies for 12 months or longer are legally permitted to change energy providers.

For example, do you ensure that your T's have read and fully understand your lists by perhaps having them sign confirmation of such, and witnessed by a non biased party?

No, I don't find I need to do any of that.

I could go on and on about how this industry has evolved to be so heavily loaded against the interest of the LL, and the ever increasing risk to the LL but I'm not so sure you will recognise that RL.

Thats correct. I don't recognise that criticism.

Where I don't share your view is that where a LL hasn't complied with each complicated, often ambiguous, confusing letter of legislation and used your lists that they deserve all ills that come their way.

Well, the law is meant to be complied with. You may disagree with the law.....many do, including me on occasions, but the penalties for not complying are usually clear.

[Ellieben]

How often are electricity safety checks now required.

[Richlist]

In the UK they are currently only legally required in HMO's.

[Melboy]

How often are electricity safety checks now required.

Most LA's insist on an electrical safety certificate for property rented out through their business.

Personally speaking I like to have the satisfaction of knowing my property has a current electrical safety certificate especially in these days of "Blame and Claim" solicitor's

I pay £75 and it is valid for 10 years AND the same electrician does all my remedial work if it is required and that way he knows what is going on and what has been done.