Water Rates

[Carryon Regardless]

Bearing in mind that we get stung for Council Tax on our empty properties now does anyone know if we are liable for water rates also ?

That is the charges raised as a proportion of Council Tax not metered water.

[Richlist]

I certainly don't pay during voids in my part of Essex.

I do make a point of contacting the utilities with tenants moving details on check out of the outgoing tenant and again on check in of the incoming tenant and make a point of telling them that there will be no water used during the void.

Obviously IF there is a meter and a significant quantity of water is used during the void then a bill for water used will be payable by the landlord. The water company are only interested in readings of full metres. One cubic metre of water = 1000 litres or 220 gallons so, if you have a water meter fitted you can use quite a bit of water during a void and not incur a charge.

I always advise my tenants to have water meters fitted in my flats as the total water charge with a meter is likely to be considerably lower than water charges for the same property based on rateable value. As an example my 1 bed flats without a water meter are paying almost twice the amount for water than I am in a large 5 bed detached house with a meter.

[Grampa]

I think any day standing charge is payable during empty periods. The thing to watch out for is water bills. Make sure you put them in the tenants name from day one otherwise you the landlord will become responsible. You wont be able to back date the bill.

[Melboy]

Just undertaking this process right now as it happens. Thames Water and on a meter.

If the landlord fails to register the new tenant from the start of the tenancy with TW then TW will hold you, the landlord, responsible for any unpaid water bills when that tenancy ends.

"In 2009 the then Government commissioned a review of charging for ... Act 1999) and must pursue non-payment of water bills through the courts. ... 2010 made landlords jointly and severally liable for water and sewerage bills".

Just as well I did this and I always do my own registering, as my tenant has an unpaid bill of £400 and finally moves out today.

Apparently you cannot have your water cut off for non-payment.

[Richlist]

If the landlord fails to register the new tenant from the start of the tenancy with TW then TW will hold you, the landlord, responsible for any unpaid water bills when that tenancy ends.

One has to question the sanity of any landlord that fails to register their new tenant(s) as occupier(s) of their property with any utility company.

I fully support all water companies that hold landlords responsible......the unwanted alternative is that the rest of us have to pay any unpaid bills through our own charges.

[Grampa]

But it asks the question what if you buy a leasehold property on a long lease? Tecnically you are a tenant to the freeholder so if you dont register the bill in your name does the freeholder become liable?

Just thinking

[Richlist]

Well I'm no expert but I suspect the law has that well covered, ........looking at it logically new build property will have something contained in the lease making the leaseholder responsible for water & other charges.

When the leasehold is sold to the 2nd or subsequent owners then the lease is assigned to the new owners with all the restrictions, stipulations and responsibilities etc contained in the lease.....including water charges. The freeholders will be unlikely to ever be responsible for water charges.

[Dave A]

I can speak from experience, if the tenant does not pay water rates and ignores communications from Anglian Water (around here). AW will put a charge on the property titles through the courts. The first time you will be aware this is happening is when the Land Rgistry write to you and tell you that it has happened. We have made this mistake once.....

Never again.

Dave

[Melboy]

I can speak from experience, if the tenant does not pay water rates and ignores communications from Anglian Water (around here). AW will put a charge on the property titles through the courts. The first time you will be aware this is happening is when the Land Rgistry write to you and tell you that it has happened. We have made this mistake once.....

Never again.

Dave

I presume you didn't inform AW of the tenant's details?

The law as I understand it from someone who was telling me their story and was threatened by TW back in 2011 is that as long as you have a signed AST contract in force which stipulates the tenant is responsible for utility bills including water then you, as the landlord, cannot be held responsible for unpaid water bills.

By that ruling I guess what is being said is that any tenant must share or be equally responsible for informing the water company that they are now using their services.

[Dave A]

No, this was our first tenancy and we missed it. It won't happen again.

Aw have advised me that if I provide copies of the tenancies stating that the tenant is responsible, then the charge will get reversed. As the tenant is still with us and we both wish to keep the arrangement ongoing, he is sorting it out directly with them. I have no doubt that he will, but will ensure it has been sorted prior to his next tenancy.

Dave

[Mortitia]

The first thing I do when new tenants move in is phone the utilities including water and give them ALL details of the bill payers with previous address (usually got through the referencing) so their can be no doubt or mix up. Then I wait for the 'inbetween bills' or final accounts that I am responsible for -proof that all has gone through.

Last year I had a Polish couple leave unwillingly and in debt but just recently found out that during their 2.5 year tenancy they never paid a water bill! That's Wessex Water for you!!

[Melboy]

Last year I had a Polish couple leave unwillingly and in debt but just recently found out that during their 2.5 year tenancy they never paid a water bill! That's Wessex Water for you!!

My tenant has left today without paying the water bill which is over £400. TW were made aware of it last June when I enquired about the account. They didn't seem to be concerned. Now you know why water paying customer's pay through the nose!

[fionaf]

We ensure our properties are all on water meters and the tenant registers on ingoing and outgoing, with us also contacting Thames Water at the same time to ensure no chance of them not having the information. No liability as a result. We have had pennies to pay during any interregnum, Usually sorted out by a very happy incoming tenant reading the meter at the point of coming in and us agreeing to pay any difference from what Thames Water had on record, taking it off their rental bill, usually pennies rather pounds.

[Carryon Regardless]

To update.

I've just spoken to United Utiliites and as long as the property is empty with no furniture there is no charge, the period is indefinite.

If there are building works going on there is a one off charge of £25, as I'm only doing 'some' decorating this isn't applicable to me.

They will only fit a water meter when an account is active, for an empty property they have no wish to set up an account and that suits me.

The property is a low rateable value and 'would' raise a charge of £227.77 p.a., if a meter were fitted they estimate that a single occupant would cause an annual cost of over £270. As this is a 2 bed terraced that is likely to be more occupants so higher.

It's a no brainer in this case it stays as is. I don't even have to travel to accommodate the meter being fitted.

[Richlist]

The property is a low rateable value and 'would' raise a charge of £227.77 p.a., if a meter were fitted they estimate that a single occupant would cause an annual cost of over £270. As this is a 2 bed terraced that is likely to be more occupants so higher.

Thats interesting.

My 1 bed flats in Essex cost around £450 pa for water/sewerage based on rateable value. The same property with 1 occupant and with a water meter fitted costs less than £250.

[Carryon Regardless]

It is an estimate, and I expect the charges on yours with water meters will fluctuate some.

Do charges, or the tariffs charged, vary much between water suppliers ?

Reading the previous responses I had considered that having a meter fitted might well simplify things believing that nowadays the charge of £227.77 raised on the empty property was valid, like council tax. As it isn't, in this case anyway, it's definitely better for all (aside from the water company) staying the way it is.

You have all prompted me to be more efficient with informing the water companies of tenant changes, to date I have been somewhat lazy with that. Years ago I received a ccj for a T's usage and only found out after evicting the abusing lady woof woof. The water company reversed all on evidence that the T had responsibility for the cost in the AST. I guess that has caused some complacency. Also I have 5 flats in a block of 6, all the water meters are close together in the public walkway. They aren't identified effectively and so taking the relevant reading isn't feasible. Next T change I'll attempt to get that water company to identify other than by serial number.

[Richlist]

They aren't identified effectively and so taking the relevant reading isn't feasible. Next T change I'll attempt to get that water company to identify other than by serial number.

Whats wrong with identification by serial number ?

Many of my water meters are in public walkways and I find indentification by serial number works perfectly.

The fact that they are some distance from the property, in a public walkway, under a heavy metal manhole cover & covered in muck.......is far more of an issue to me than identification by serial number.

The chances of your water company making a special effort to identify your meters in some other/ allternative way, just for you, are virtually non existant.

Just put a description of the meter location & the serial number on the inventory next to the meter reading.