what constitutes minor maintenance in an AST?

[chickpea]

I know a lot of AST's state that minor maintenance, such as changing a washer is a tenant's responsibility, but what is the reality in practice?

Can you expect your tenant to recognise that the washer needs changing in the first place?

We've just been presented with a plumber's invoice for over 40 pounds, for him to change a washer in the shower head. Our suggestion to the agent was that this comes under minor maintenace...agent's reply is that he doesn't consider changing a washer to be covered in the AST as a tenant's job.

Another question on a similar subject - our property has double glazing throughout. The kitchen door has a crack in one pane of it's glazing, and a bedroom window has a hole in the external pane (looks like a stone has been thrown at it). Neither door nor window is dangerous, nor is the efficiency of either compromised. We bought it as is, and the tenants took on the lease as seen.

Can they insist we replace/repair?

[Grampa]

Regarding the washer for the shower head I would refer your agent to Wycombe health authority v Barnett 1982 where it was stated "Tenant like manner also includes changing a washer on a tap"

Also Warren v Keen 1953 where judge Denning stated "In short he must do the little jobs about the place which a reasonable tenant would do"

Any good agent would have learnt about these cases on the first course they did. If your agent is unaware of them I would question what else they dont know either and are they going to put you at risk or liable with any of their past or future actions acting on your behalf.

Regarding the windows you have to look towards section 11 of the housing act. My view is as the windows are designed to be sealed units and as one of the panes is damaged you should repair, not only is it good practice to maintane the property it keeps the tenants on side. If the tenants moved out over it, it would cost you more in the vacant period before getting a new tenant. Also the property wouldnt present well for viewings and may make it harder to rent at even more cost.

[Chestnut]

I agree with Grampa on both points.

However reality of washer situation is that one tenant won't know one end of a washer from its other, whereas another tenant could probably be entrusted to refit a whole bathroom (costs re-imbursed of course). It's a poor agent not to sort this job for you. (Probably just a few pence for washer but £40 might be plumber's minimum call out charge.)

Broken d/glazed window panes should be replaced by Landlord. Aren't they covered by buildings insurance? Possibly no panic to act if tenant not complaining.

[chickpea]

Thanks Grampa.

We sent an email to th agent, regarding the washer issue.

His reply was that he would never let the tenant replac even a washer, because of possible future liability with regards insurance issues - by this, I take it he means that if the tenant made a cock up and caused future leaks, the issue of whether our insurance would become null and void may arise??

It rather begs the question of whether he'd insist on sending an electrician in to change a lightbulb or fuse etc...

I take your point about the windows, regarding it being preferable to repair them ideally. However, we have managed to let to 3 sets of tenants with them as they are (with plenty of interest on each occasion that the property has come up for re-let), so my question was leaning more towards our obligation. I ask, because it transpires that the agents have sent a builder in to quote for the windows, after we agreed with him that we were not in a position to replace them.

[chickpea]

Thanks Chestnut.

Yes - the plumber's call out was £40 - the materials were £1.50.

My point about the windows is that they are not hugely damaged (the kitchen door is a leaded unit and the crack is within one of the diamonds) and the tenants knew about them when they signed the agreement. They have been in for 4 months and only mentioned them now - or maybe it's the agent that has brought it up, not them? The last tenants wanted us to replace every window, saying they were "draughty"...

Current tenants wanted us to call someone out because they couldn't get the oven to work...they hadn't switched it on.

I'm just suspicious that the tenants are of th mindset that they pay their rent, therefore they deserve to be able to make whatever demands they like.

[Carryon Regardless]

Why did no one contact you, the owner, prior to authorising works.

If I remember correctly your Hubby is handy enough to carry out such menial tasks.

The windows is a judgement call in my view, as in are they or aren't they potentially dangerous / affecting security / of reduced efficiency.

While I wouldn't reasonably expect a T to see all issues at viewing I wouldn't pander to their whims without good cause either. Nowt wrong with No as an answer.

[Richlist]

Cracked/Broken Window Glass

Presumably this was identified on the check in inventory or schedule of condition and the tenants took the property knowing the glass was cracked. No legal or mandatory requirement exists for the landlord to fix this as its not dangerous or likely to cause a hazard. The choice is up to you to get it fixed when it suits you and not the tenants.

Tenants Responsibilities

I always provide new tenants with a help sheet that provides useful information. This includes a summary of what THEY are responsible for ......it includes.....changing light bulbs, replacing batteries in smoke alarms, clocks, door bells etc, replacing fuses, fixing tap washers, unblocking sinks & toilets, tightening loose screws/ hardware etc etc. It also includes a note that says ' you should contact the landlord if you have any difficulty or if there is anything you are unsure of'. Perhaps you could consider providing any new tenants AND AGENTS with similar.

[chickpea]

Yes, hubby is more than capable of tackling basic plumbing issues. Had we been told that a washer needed replacing, he would have told them to do it, or done it himself.

Agent is saying that it cost the call out charge to identify that the washer needed replacing - he says that the tenants have said a small damp patch appeared on the lounge ceiling "overnight", hence my original question as to whether a tenant should be expected to recognise an issue. (I am assuming that the shower had leaked for some time, without them noticing?)

If tenants can't be expected to recognise the cause of a dripping tap/shower etc, it rather defeats the object of expecting them to change a washer, doesn't it?! Likewise, a blocked drain etc.

Yes, the windows are noted in the inventory - which is why I don't feel it's an obligation. (but depending on how the quote looks, we may just get them repaired anyway). The agent is now saying that he got a quote done, simply to appease the tenants - which is rubbish, because now the tenants will be expecting us to act on the quote.

[Melboy]

I would also agree with RL comments. If you don't have these clauses in place on your contract and the understanding between landlord and tenant then you could end up with a tenant on the phone every five minutes wanting you to carry out the simplist of tasks.

Regarding the "Plumber"....... charges do vary from place to place but what a lot of people fail to recognise is that if the Plumber has to travel to carry out a repair then fuel and travel time costs and ( 20% VAT perhaps?) must be considered.

"Free" call out charges are becoming history I am sorry to say especially in rural areas and London has always had some form of call out charge as long as I can remember and if they havn't, don't worry, it will be somewhere hidden in your final invoice / bill.

Can I just mention I am having to have a new boiler fitted?

[Richlist]

Agent is saying that it cost the call out charge to identify that the washer needed replacing - he says that the tenants have said a small damp patch appeared on the lounge ceiling "overnight", hence my original question as to whether a tenant should be expected to recognise an issue. (I am assuming that the shower had leaked for some time, without them noticing?)

Don't understand how a leaking rubber washer in a shower tap/ shower head/ shower hose etc is gonna cause a damp patch on the ceiling below. Shower taps and associated parts generally drip or leak into a bath or shower tray.

[chickpea]

I absolutely have no issue with a call out charge from the plumber - hell, everyone's gotta make a living and time is money :-)

My point was that the agent is using that angle to validate why we've ended up paying £41.50 for a washer replacement that I would expect the tenant to fix.

RL - you have now said what I was already questioning. How does a duff washer cause water to escape through a ceiling. My own thougth is that the tenants actually only just spotted a slight watermark from a previous leak (hence the "it appeared overnight" statement...ie we hadn't noticed it before), called the agents, who called the plumber...who got there to find nothing wrong and so changed a washer to justify the call out. (again, I understand the £40 would be due, whatever, by that point, so I am in no way knocking the plumber - but AM knocking the agent for not putting 2 and 2 together and making 5).

The agent has been asked to keep us informed of all the tenants' questions. We don't want the T's to have our phone number, after our experience with previous nightmare tenants. (not to mention the fact that we pay the agents 12% to deal with the tenants in the first instance). The idea of a maintenance man is a good one - thanks.

We have a meeting with the agent to iron out our grievances tomorrow.

[Chestnut]

If the tenants called the agent because they spotted damp on the ceiling (and not to change a leaking washer) it's a different story and the agent is justified in passing the cost back to the landlord. I have had a "water through ceiling" phone call, which I eventually tracked down several days later to shower use sending water down behind half tiled bath. (My fault - I should have re-tiled bath to ceiling when shower was fitted.) I don't think an agent would have discovered this cause too easily.

Cooker not turned on? - I bet most of us have been there one time or another - my failing is those built-in electric ovens which for certain tasks require all three knobs to be set, and/or clock, and of course the wall switch!!

A landlord should provide tenant and agent with list of responsibilities, instructions, and induction course if at all possible.

With great respect to agent contributors, my view is that an agent's priority will be to make money for least effort to run a successful business. The activity detail involved will come second.

[Carryon Regardless]

Poor comms by the A is what I see, they wouldn't get my money easily.

An option is to provide the T's with a mobile number for you, most T's seem to prefer mobiles anyway. A new number on pay as you go, only answer when it's convenient to you, they can always send a text which is often better to create a record of events anyway.

[Richlist]

With great respect to agent contributors, my view is that an agent's priority will be to make money for least effort to run a successful business. The activity detail involved will come second.

I think Chestnut has hit the nail on the head and its the main point that many landlords miss completely.

The way I see it is that you have 2 main choices:

* Manage the property yourself or

* Pay for an agent to do it for you.....and in your case 12% (+ VAT presumably?).

If you pay an agent

* Don't assume they will handle maintenance issues/ requests the same way as you would.

* Set out clear guidelines for the agent and the tenant.

* Be prepared to pay HIGH prices for simple repairs.

* Agents will often add their admin costs to the bill.

* Agents are not builders/ repairers.....they generally have no knowledge or experience so will call out a tradesman for the simplest of tasks.

* If the responsibility of the cost of a repair is difficult to determine between landlord or tenant.....its usually the landlord that will get the bill.

* Remember.......the agent's priority will be to make money for the least effort.

[chickpea]

Thanks for all your comments.

So...we have been in to chat with the agent today and managed to get to the bottom of things. Seemingly, the fault lies with a/ the office person who didn't give enough information to us about the issue after the plumber went in, and b/ the plumber who described the issue as "replace washer" on the invoice, when the problem was a little more complex than that.

Agent has explained that all landlords have different ways they wish properties to be managed, eg some feel they are paying the agent to deal with it all, so don't want bothering ever, and some (us) want to know what's going on and be consulted over anything that involves cost to ourselves. We have made it very clear now that we want detailed feedback and info on anything that is queried by the tenants. Agent has made it clear that there is no mark-up on any contractors' fees - what we pay is what it costs. We have actually spoken to the plumber now - he's the plumber we use for our own home and used to be a neighbour - and met the builder who has quoted for the window replacements. (who has an excellent recommendation locally and only charges £15 an hour for labour).

Moral of the story is to make clear to the agent in the first place in no uncertain terms what we want from them...and don't waste time talking to the office girls/boys. Lesson learnt.