Carryon Regardless Posted March 6, 2012 Report Share Posted March 6, 2012 Just for discussion. Scenario- Squatters are in your property and there is no possibility to prove forced entry. They have possession rights while in occupance. One day you are with a credible witness and a key. You find the property to be unattended. You use your key and prior to the return of anyone claiming occupancy rights you have changed the locks and made the property secure. You have regained possession and at speed granted the use to another party (could even be yourself). The property is now occupied by other than the squatters. Have you broken any laws ? What rights to re enter the property do the squatters have ? The squatters claim to have belongings within the property, what rights do they have regarding these claimed belongings ? There's no wrong answers here it's just for fun and possibly some education. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LLAW96 Posted March 6, 2012 Report Share Posted March 6, 2012 Putting aside an ipo and issuing abridged possession proceedings, provided that no force or violence is used then peaceful re-entry is lawful albeit in this case you would have a duty of casre to take care of any possessions at the property. That should be that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melboy Posted March 6, 2012 Report Share Posted March 6, 2012 I find my property / home occupied by people with no right of occupation to be there. They insist that the law is on their side as they gained entry through an open window. I throw them out or escort them out of my property onto the pavement. I go to jail. Welcome to British justice. I hope people will come and visit me or at least start a petition up "Free Melboy...The Innocent One". Mel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grampa Posted March 6, 2012 Report Share Posted March 6, 2012 I will visit you in prison mel and send you a soap on a rope:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bdh198 Posted March 6, 2012 Report Share Posted March 6, 2012 I find my property / home occupied by people with no right of occupation to be there. They insist that the law is on their side as they gained entry through an open window. I throw them out or escort them out of my property onto the pavement. I go to jail. Welcome to British justice. I hope people will come and visit me or at least start a petition up "Free Melboy...The Innocent One". Mel. If it is your 'home' that has been occupied then in the situation you describe you will not be committing an offence and will not go to jail. The Criminal Law Act 1977 protects a 'displaced residential occupier' in this situation i.e. someone who uses the property as their primary residence (their home). It will in fact be the trespasser (squatter) who will be committing an offence (of Adverse Occupation) under Section 7 of that Act if they do not leave when asked to do so by the displaced residential occupier, and the displaced residential occupier will be able to use reasonable force to remove that trespasser if they do not leave the property when asked (Section 6(1A) CLA). The difficulty with squatters under the current law comes when the property is not your home i.e. you are not a 'residential occupier' of that property. This is where a squatter can claim rights if they enter the premises without using force or violence to secure that entry, and then assume control over entry e.g. change the locks. They will then become a 'residential occupier' and that's when you'll need to seek possession through the courts. However, the Legal Aid Sentencing and Punishment of Offenders Bill currently going through parliament will hopefully make life more difficult for squatters when it finally becomes law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bdh198 Posted March 6, 2012 Report Share Posted March 6, 2012 Just in case anyone is interested and isn't aware of the proposed changes to the law, here is the current proposal for an offence of Squatting in a Residential Building under the Legal Aid Sentencing and Punishment of Offenders Bill. http://services.parl...foffenders.html 136 Offence of squatting in a residential building (1) A person commits an offence if— (a) the person is in a residential building as a trespasser having entered it as a trespasser, ( the person knows or ought to know that he or she is a trespasser, and [c) the person is living in the building or intends to live there for any period. (2) The offence is not committed by a person holding over after the end of a lease or licence (even if the person leaves and re-enters the building). (3) For the purposes of this section— (a) "building" includes any structure or part of a structure (including a temporary or moveable structure), and ( a building is "residential" if it is designed or adapted, before the time of entry, for use as a place to live. (4) For the purposes of this section the fact that a person derives title from a trespasser, or has the permission of a trespasser, does not prevent the person from being a trespasser. (5) A person convicted of an offence under this section is liable on summary conviction to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 51 weeks or a fine not exceeding level 5 on the standard scale (or both). (6) In relation to an offence committed before the commencement of section 281(5) of the Criminal Justice Act 2003, the reference in subsection (5) to 51 weeks is to be read as a reference to 6 months. (7) For the purposes of subsection (1)(a) it is irrelevant whether the person entered the building as a trespasser before or after the commencement of this section. (8) In section 17 of the Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984 (entry for purpose of arrest etc)— (a) in subsection (1)c), after sub-paragraph (v) insert—"(vi) section 136 of the Legal Aid, Sentencing and Punishment of Offenders Act 2012 (squatting in a residential building);"; ( in subsection (3), for "or (iv)" substitute ", (iv) or (vi)". (9) In Schedule 10 to the Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994 (consequential amendments), omit paragraph 53(. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geezah Posted March 7, 2012 Report Share Posted March 7, 2012 Just buy your property in Scotland, squatting is illegal. How stupid is the english legal system...or not if it makes lawyers lots of money. Sheeesh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melboy Posted March 7, 2012 Report Share Posted March 7, 2012 Solent I have been running a One-Man campaign now with Grant Shapps the Government Minister for housing to get the law changed NOW on squatting for over 2 years. I don't seem to have got very far imo. Although what you say may be technically and legally correct believe me it doesn't work out in reality and there are many many recent cases to support this whereby the home owner has been required to evict squatters from their own home which has cost them many thousands of pounds in legal fees and property damage repair. Mel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geezah Posted March 7, 2012 Report Share Posted March 7, 2012 Pardon me if I'm stating the obvious. You say you are running a 'one-man' campaign. have you considered bringing on board the major english residential landlord associations, e.g. NLA? best of luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carryon Regardless Posted March 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2012 Good input Gents. There's enough for me to drive to Wales for my properties Scotland's just tooooo far. I hadn't realised there was a difference here if it were your own home, it's well worth being prepared with correct legal references prior to action. I share Mel's opinion mostly. Finding a squatter the last thing to do is involve the Police, they do nowt but you have put on record the occupance of the squatter/s. You will likely be told by the Police, correctly or not, the rights of the squatters and what you aren't permitted to do. All to the advantage of the intruders / squatters. My aim would be to wait, or assist in the property becoming unattended and repossess. Violence is the one that works to their advantage also, and with their word against mine it's a gamble who the Police believe would have started any aggro, It's weighted that they would get the sympathy. Now since you, as owner, have keys, or in any case may enter in a peaceful manner, what's to stop you taking up residence alongside your unwanted occupants ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richlist Posted March 7, 2012 Report Share Posted March 7, 2012 Whats to stop a squattter from changing a lock ???......it doesn't require any particular skills or intelligence and is the obvious FIRST task after gaining entry for squatting purposes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carryon Regardless Posted March 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2012 "or in any case may enter in a peaceful manner" It seems that an owner would have to prove forced entry, till the new legislation crawls its way into being. As an owner don't we have a right to break into our own property anyway ? For peaceful reasons of course, like maintenance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melboy Posted March 7, 2012 Report Share Posted March 7, 2012 Never but never call the police if squatters have invaded your home. They will take no action and are more liable to arrest you for a breach of the peace if you so much as say a bad mouth word against the Scum who have entered your property. Many recent cases around so take your pick here is just one of many. http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/squatters-say-sorry-and-finally-leave-pregnant-womans-home-6440970.html The normal trick is for someone to break a glass window and then for another person to actually enter and by doing that the police are powerless to take action as they cannot prove who actually broke the window so at that point they lose complete interest as it becomes a civil case in law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bdh198 Posted March 7, 2012 Report Share Posted March 7, 2012 Now since you, as owner, have keys, or in any case may enter in a peaceful manner, what's to stop you taking up residence alongside your unwanted occupants ? Assuming it's not your home then so long as they entered peacefully and have assumed right over entry they would become a 'residential occupier'. This means that if you entered the property without their consent you would be a trespasser and they could use the rights of the residential occupier to remove you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest caravanj Posted March 11, 2012 Report Share Posted March 11, 2012 You couldn't make it up! No wonder we're the laughing stock of the world! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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