otourist Posted May 17, 2011 Report Share Posted May 17, 2011 Hi. I have a new potential tenant who wants to rent a property from me with her friend and I'm wondering what the best way of writing up the agreement is. She has suggested that she will sign up with me in her name only and will just collect money from her friend. She is in in a good stable job and subject to references I'm happy to rent to her, whereas her friend is in OK but less stable employment. I'm happy to rent on the suggested basis but I just wonder where I stand on a legal point of view if anything goes pear-shaped. If the tenant, for example just decided to clear off, could I be stuck with her friend who may struggle to met the rental payments. I use a standard Shorthold Tenancy Agreement which has a clause forbidding subletting. Would I just need to take this clause out or should I append a letter giving my permission to sublet to a specified individual? Thanks for any help you can suggest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grampa Posted May 17, 2011 Report Share Posted May 17, 2011 I see you have 3 choices: 1 Dont rent to them and find someone else. 2 Put them both down as joint tenants but if one doesnt pay or moves out you can chase rent from the other. 3 Put one down on an Assured Shorthold Tenancy and let the other be a lodger. If you choose this route i suggest you keep a copy of the lodger agreement used and dont accept any rent payments from the lodger directly other wise that could infer your have given her a tenancy and if you accepted rent off her because the "proper" tenant was on holiday or moved out i would say she would now be converted to a AST tenant and all the rights that included. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richlist Posted May 17, 2011 Report Share Posted May 17, 2011 Option 3 might be a problem: 1. It would not normally be allowed within the terms of any mortgage you may have on the property. 2. If its a leasehold property that requires the permission to let from the freeholder or their managing agents it probably isn't permitted. 3. Check it doesnt breach the rules for any insurance cover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carryon Regardless Posted May 17, 2011 Report Share Posted May 17, 2011 I would only consider this as joint T's with guarantor(s). I would make them aware that they are both responsible for the full rent, it's then up to them how they arrange this. It sounds like they are 2 young females ?? That would scare the hell outa me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grampa Posted May 17, 2011 Report Share Posted May 17, 2011 Just one not so young female scares the hell out me, my wife. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richlist Posted May 17, 2011 Report Share Posted May 17, 2011 In my experience letting to a couple of same sex friends is NOT to be recommended. I've only done this twice......so my experience is based just on this tiny sample but: 1. A couple of lesbians ......and that worked fine as they were 'an item'. 2. A couple of girls who were friends with each other..... they have had an argument and both went separate ways within 6 weeks of moving in. Friends are fine, but when they move in and live with each other, little things like leaving the top off the toothpaste or not washing up become major disputes. Personally I won't let to friends sharing (same sex couples who are in a relationship are fine) as I consider they carry a greater risk of splitting up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grampa Posted May 18, 2011 Report Share Posted May 18, 2011 Also if you rent out to 2 females and one has a kiddie the property becomes a HMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melboy Posted May 18, 2011 Report Share Posted May 18, 2011 Hi. I have a new potential tenant who wants to rent a property from me with her friend and I'm wondering what the best way of writing up the agreement is. She has suggested that she will sign up with me in her name only and will just collect money from her friend. She is in in a good stable job and subject to references I'm happy to rent to her, whereas her friend is in OK but less stable employment. I'm happy to rent on the suggested basis but I just wonder where I stand on a legal point of view if anything goes pear-shaped. If the tenant, for example just decided to clear off, could I be stuck with her friend who may struggle to met the rental payments. I use a standard Shorthold Tenancy Agreement which has a clause forbidding subletting. Would I just need to take this clause out or should I append a letter giving my permission to sublet to a specified individual? Thanks for any help you can suggest. There are no 'friends' in the rental business. It's both names on the AST..... or no deal. It is as simple as that. Why leave yourself open to possible trouble in the future? You have highlighted the exact reasons why you shouldn't go down the route you have suggested. Mel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest caravanj Posted May 18, 2011 Report Share Posted May 18, 2011 it doesn't matter what status the second woman has, once she's in your property you're stuck with her even if you didn't know she was there so there's no reason or advantage to not having her included in the AST. I'm evicting a T who's in prison & unknown to me he let his son move in to live with him. The son is not my T or even classed as a residential occupier of the property but he's still protected under the Protection from Eviction Act 1977 & cannot be forcibly removed so he's there till I get my court possession order & bailiff eviction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
otourist Posted May 18, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 18, 2011 Thanks for all the replys. Very helpful. Yes I guess that both names on the tenancy agreement should be the only answer. And thanks for the pointers on the risks of taking on same sex friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest caravanj Posted May 18, 2011 Report Share Posted May 18, 2011 it doesn't matter what status the second woman has, once she's in your property you're stuck with her even if you didn't know she was there so there's no reason or advantage to not having her included in the AST. I'm evicting a T who's in prison & unknown to me he let his son move in to live with him. The son is not my T or even classed as a residential occupier of the property but he's still protected under the Protection from Eviction Act 1977 & cannot be forcibly removed so he's there till I get my court possession order & bailiff eviction. Protection from Eviction Act 1977 1. Unlawful eviction and harassment of occupier (1) In this section "residential occupier" in relation to any premises, means a person occupying the premises as a residence, whether under a contract or by virtue of any enactment or rule of law giving him the right to remain in occupation or restricting the right of any other person to recover possession of the premises. (2) If any person unlawfully deprives the residential occupier of any premises of his occupation of the premises or any part thereof, or attempts to do so, he shall be guilty of an offence unless he proves that he believed, and had reasonable cause to believe, that the residential occupier had ceased to reside in the premises. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melboy Posted May 18, 2011 Report Share Posted May 18, 2011 Protection from Eviction Act 1977 1. Unlawful eviction and harassment of occupier (1) In this section "residential occupier" in relation to any premises, means a person occupying the premises as a residence, whether under a contract or by virtue of any enactment or rule of law giving him the right to remain in occupation or restricting the right of any other person to recover possession of the premises. (2) If any person unlawfully deprives the residential occupier of any premises of his occupation of the premises or any part thereof, or attempts to do so, he shall be guilty of an offence unless he proves that he believed, and had reasonable cause to believe, that the residential occupier had ceased to reside in the premises. Back in 1996 I rented a house to 2 young professionals who on the face of it looked to be ideal tenants and they were for around a Month! They both did a Moonlight flit leaving me with all their lousy furniture and a mess but the biggest thing they left me was their sub letting tenant that they were renting a room to! without my permission of course! Anyway the locks were changed by this illegal sub letter and he spoke to me through the kitchen window and quoted to me the 1977 Eviction Act or chapters from it. I politely listened to what he had to say and then I asked him if it was his intention to ever go out at all to which he repled yes. I would be very careful if I was you I said as it is a very dark area and there is a good chance you could get mugged or injured and we wouldn't want that to happen to you would you. He left the following day after kicking the bedroom door and furniture to pieces. I have always said it is far more sociable and cheaper to reason with difficult tenants rather than getting into long drawn out arguments on who is right and who is wrong. If I remember correctly it cost me £500 odd to sort out the damage for a Months rental Luckily I had their deposit to pay for it in my bank account and not in some deposit scheme. Mel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grampa Posted May 18, 2011 Report Share Posted May 18, 2011 Melboy the jobs yours when do you want to start? Pickaxe handles included. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carryon Regardless Posted May 18, 2011 Report Share Posted May 18, 2011 Melboy you could develop a business here. That's 2 of us you've got, any more ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melboy Posted May 19, 2011 Report Share Posted May 19, 2011 Melboy the jobs yours when do you want to start? Pickaxe handles included. I don't actually do anything personally and I am happy to say I haven't done anything criminal however, like finding a good tradesman I know the right people to call upon in time of need if such an occasion should ever arise. The problem is that really nasty, problem tenants think they are above the good honest landlord and can bleed a landlord dry, well, I disagree with that and would quite willingly serve time if I thought I was correct in what I was doing. I have been a landlord now for over 20 years and had most bad things happen to me re-bad tenents so I can speak from experience but I have to say the bad tenant is getting worse these days as they just don't seem to give a sh*t about you, your property or their irresponsible actions hence sometimes it may be necessary to take positive actions as required. On a brighter note I have 3 very nice tenents in my properties and they have been there, all of them, for around 5 years or more so there are nice people around who respect what you are doing and to be fair to myself I am a very good landlord and I look after people in quality property but unfortunately some people I have known as tenents have taking this as a soft touch....much to their regret. Some of the horror stories on this forum and other forums are worth a read on a wet Sunday afternoon. I have always said that the vital bit of being a landlord is to check, check, check again that before any person steps through your property front door is that they are not going to cause you grief and misery and expense but unfortunately these wise words often go unheeded by the majority of the new generation landlords that appear on this forum. There are no 'friends' in the renting game. You are on your own apart from the advice you may receive from forums such as this for landlords, landlords who are your "friends" of course, by nature of the business we are all in. Mel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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