Is it a good time to invest into a rental property considering the cost-of-living crisis in the UK?

[Richlist]

It's not possible to pay both........😁😁

 

[bil8999]

On 11/23/2023 at 7:40 PM, Richlist said:

It's not possible to pay both........😁😁

 

Don't really want to pay either

[Melboy]

Just a bit of an update on the rental property rental scene in my area of North Wilshire.  I was chatting to my Son in the week and as a lot of regular members know he is a licensed independent gas engineer and has been for 30 years running his tiny heating business.  He said that he has noticeably seen quite a drop in undertaking gas inspections / landlords certificates / Boiler replacements in the last 12 months. He does a lot of work for 2 major letting / selling agents in the area plus his own customers. The general consensus is that many landlords are calling it time (like RL) and getting out of the private landlord business. One person he does a lot of work for has 28 properties but is now in the process of selling off 2 or 3 this year and more to follow over the next few years. That will hit my Son's income! He changed all 28 boilers over a 2 year period plus a load more work.            

              The other noticeable thing from the selling agents I speak to is that quite a number of Landlords are selling their properties with long term paying tenants in place with a caveat they must not be evicted on completion of that sale if they are paying their rent etc. to their new landlord.   I guess this is trying to be fair to a long term tenant who gives no hassle to their landlord.

Personally speaking I think it's a brave person who enters the BTL market right now as it's a whole new World now what with interest rates and large deposits and an uncertain future with the Labour Party about to gain power.

God help us all!!

[bil8999]

1 hour ago, Melboy said:

Just a bit of an update on the rental property rental scene in my area of North Wilshire.  I was chatting to my Son in the week and as a lot of regular members know he is a licensed independent gas engineer and has been for 30 years running his tiny heating business.  He said that he has noticeably seen quite a drop in undertaking gas inspections / landlords certificates / Boiler replacements in the last 12 months. He does a lot of work for 2 major letting / selling agents in the area plus his own customers. The general consensus is that many landlords are calling it time (like RL) and getting out of the private landlord business. One person he does a lot of work for has 28 properties but is now in the process of selling off 2 or 3 this year and more to follow over the next few years. That will hit my Son's income! He changed all 28 boilers over a 2 year period plus a load more work.            

              The other noticeable thing from the selling agents I speak to is that quite a number of Landlords are selling their properties with long term paying tenants in place with a caveat they must not be evicted on completion of that sale if they are paying their rent etc. to their new landlord.   I guess this is trying to be fair to a long term tenant who gives no hassle to their landlord.

Personally speaking I think it's a brave person who enters the BTL market right now as it's a whole new World now what with interest rates and large deposits and an uncertain future with the Labour Party about to gain power.

God help us all!!

If you had access to a 300k mortgage at 2% fixed for 5 years, all be it that 1 year has gone, would you invest it in residential market or commercial

[Richlist]

It's very tempting but I'd want to crunch the numbers in detail before deciding because of adverse legislation surrounding BTL.

* Cant offset mortgage costs.

* CGT allowances significantly reduced.

* Lots of additional legislation.

* The cost of everything has gone up.I

* Labour Party is coming......it won't be good news will It ?

* Etc

It probably still works ie there is a profit to be made but is it really worth it ?

[Grampa]

The days of single property landlords are numbered. Ideally you need 3+ properties to iron out the up's and down's. The legislation is gradually getting worst, and its becoming harder and harder to evict tenants and the potential to getting a eviction struck out on a technicality is huge. 

Now add rent caps in which will likely rear its ugly head i guess in the near future you have a PRS that is just going to reduce.  

[Richlist]

Good points.

If I were a tenant id be quite concerned about a Labour Gov' that is going to frighten many more landlords away. They just don't seem to understand that the PRS is very fragile. They don't understand that there has to be a profit to attract and keep a landlord renting.......they seem to view profit as a way of increasing tax revenues. If all the benefits are given to tenants then the result will be less choice and significantly fewer rental properties. It was good while it lasted but I'm kind of glad I'm out and haven't seen anything recently that would seriously tempt me to return.

[bil8999]

21 hours ago, Richlist said:

Good points.

If I were a tenant id be quite concerned about a Labour Gov' that is going to frighten many more landlords away. They just don't seem to understand that the PRS is very fragile. They don't understand that there has to be a profit to attract and keep a landlord renting.......they seem to view profit as a way of increasing tax revenues. If all the benefits are given to tenants then the result will be less choice and significantly fewer rental properties. It was good while it lasted but I'm kind of glad I'm out and haven't seen anything recently that would seriously tempt me to return.

Been offered a nice apartment in Matlock 125k, rent £ 850 per month, would that tempt you?

[bil8999]

21 hours ago, Richlist said:

Good points.

If I were a tenant id be quite concerned about a Labour Gov' that is going to frighten many more landlords away. They just don't seem to understand that the PRS is very fragile. They don't understand that there has to be a profit to attract and keep a landlord renting.......they seem to view profit as a way of increasing tax revenues. If all the benefits are given to tenants then the result will be less choice and significantly fewer rental properties. It was good while it lasted but I'm kind of glad I'm out and haven't seen anything recently that would seriously tempt me to return.

Been offered nice apartment in Matlock 125k, rent 850 per month, would that tempt you?

[Carryon Regardless]

Matlock is nice, but depends on the flat really.

The return isn't high, especially for a flat.

The leasehold reform act has pretty much stalled, and Labour aren't seeing it as a priority. So what are the various associated charges? How is it managed, would you be a share holder in the management company? This side of things 'can' be a minefield. Personally I feel both parties, and the Lords, find reforms are too complicated for 'em.

 

[bil8999]

11 hours ago, Carryon Regardless said:

Matlock is nice, bit depends on the flat really.

The return isn't high, especially for a flat.

The leasehold reform act has pretty much stalled, and Labour aren't seeing it as a priority. So what are the various associated charges? How is it managed, would you be a share holder in the management company? This side of things 'can' be a minefield. Personally I feel both parties, and the Lords, find reforms are too complicated for 'em.

 

Thanks for raising points id not given much thought to, what return would you be looking at for a very nice flat with good tenant? in Matlock

[Richlist]

I spent years trying to extract myself from leasehold ownership and move to freehold. My experience, in my part of the country is that leasehold property doesn't increase in value as fast as freeholds. 

Then there are potential issues with ground rents, service charges, restrictions, parking arrangements, management companies, permission to let, insurance, short leases, leasehold rules, larger conveyancing fees, etc, etc. Every one of these designed to inflict maximum pain on the leaseholder.

[Carryon Regardless]

Tbh I don't know the expected returns for Matlock.

Also w/o understanding the risks of the things RL mentions it's difficult to assess the situation.

But I would expect a good demand for Matlock, again depending on the specific location / situation. But my limited experience tells me it's a busy town, a lot of through traffic, and a tourist hotspot. All good for demand. 

Another thought I've been playing with is the tourist holiday lets. Wales have hit those rentals hard recently (with 'up to' 300% council tax), England may also see the cash cow possibilities. And it seems that market has taken a plunge this year. There is far greater involvement, what with continual maintenance / replacements to keep up to the high standard expected, and the turn arounds. So although this flat may lend itself to that source of income I would / am waiting to see where things are in a year or two.

[bil8999]

2 hours ago, Carryon Regardless said:

Tbh I don't know the expected returns for Matlock.

Also w/o understanding the risks of the things RL mentions it's difficult to assess the situation.

But I would expect a good demand for Matlock, again depending on the specific location / situation. But my limited experience tells me it's a busy town, a lot of through traffic, and a tourist hotspot. All good for demand. 

Another thought I've been playing with is the tourist holiday lets. Wales have hit those rentals hard recently (with 'up to' 300% council tax), England may also see the cash cow possibilities. And it seems that market has taken a plunge this year. There is far greater involvement, what with continual maintenance / replacements to keep up to the high standard expected, and the turn arounds. So although this flat may lend itself to that source of income I would / am waiting to see where things are in a year or two.

Its just off the busy area of Matlock, built approx 10 ago, one sold 2022 for 200k, i have been offered this for 150k, with provision that i would rent long term to existing tenant, who looks after the place really well

[Richlist]

So if it's a great property in such a great location, why is the vendor offering it to you at £50k under the market value ?

Last time I came across that sort of offer the property contained a heap of external 'Grenfell Tower type' cladding. If it seems to good to be true, it probably is.

I'm guessing you'll need to be a cash buyer because a mortgage lender will insist on vacant possession before releasing funds.

What's the catch ?

[bil8999]

15 hours ago, Richlist said:

So if it's a great property in such a great location, why is the vendor offering it to you at £50k under the market value ?

Last time I came across that sort of offer the property contained a heap of external 'Grenfell Tower type' cladding. If it seems to good to be true, it probably is.

I'm guessing you'll need to be a cash buyer because a mortgage lender will insist on vacant possession before releasing funds.

What's the catch ?

There is no catch, i have known the dad to the tenant for some 40 years, they have got into a very difficult situation, his wife is also not well, his son the tenant suffers with mental health issues, they need a way out of this situation, so i have offered to purchase the property at the price i stated with the assurance i will continue to rent the property to his son, am i wrong to make this offer, are there pitfalls i am unaware of, who knows.

[Grampa]

23 hours ago, Richlist said:

I spent years trying to extract myself from leasehold ownership and move to freehold. My experience, in my part of the country is that leasehold property doesn't increase in value as fast as freeholds. 

Then there are potential issues with ground rents, service charges, restrictions, parking arrangements, management companies, permission to let, insurance, short leases, leasehold rules, larger conveyancing fees, etc, etc. Every one of these designed to inflict maximum pain on the leaseholder.

I generally agree and sold some of my first BTL leasehold properties for the above reasons. But I have since purchased a house that has been converted into 2 one bed flats that includes the freehold and therefore none of the normal service charges and block management fees. I have also purchased an fairly modern  1st floor ex-council flat and although leasehold with a long lease the only "service charge" payments I get billed is for by the council is buildings  insurance of approx. £180pa. There is no garden or common-ways to maintain.