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Tenant/s Staying Beyond S21 Expiry

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I served a S21 to expire 31st May. That being the last day of a tenancy period (SPT).

I was contacted by some one purporting to be local council(Denbighshire) homeless assistance. Essentially he wanted to negotiate an extension to the S21. I wouldn't talk of specifics (data protection / privacy) and the pushy attitude resulted in my putting the phone down, twice, and maybe I used a couple of expletives.

Now the tenant has told me they intend to move on the 14th June. No biggy. That's a lot easier than progressing to court, whenever that may have been.

The tenant clearly believes he should only pay till the 14th, as I have served a S21.

My view is that as he  / they haven't vacated by the 31st May then they are now in a new period of tenancy and should pay till the end of a period. And as I was only informed yesterday a full months notice would expire at the end of the July period.

I had requested pre arranged access for viewing, to include estate agent. Possibly I could start some required works also. This wasn't permitted. So I've lost time and will have expenses I may have avoided.

I'm expecting to have to deal with their abuse of the property, and disposal of their rubbish is likely. In Wales LL's must now treat rubbish as commercial and employ a registered contractor, or be liable to a £2k fine.

It's easy to understand the stresses of having to relocate, although this may have been avoided had the tenants complied with my requests during the tenancy. So really I'm feeling that I have been and will be disadvantaged too much to be financially sympathetic.

Thought appreciated.



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I have found myself in similar situations a few times. I always try to negotiate an amicable arrangement that provides me with access, viewings, opportunity to limit void periods in exchange for flexibility in rent and tenant notice requirements.

Unfortunately for you......you're in Wales and probably have to jump thru hoops whilst still guaranteed to loose financially. There is no easy answer but meeting each other half way goes some way to smoothing out the bumps.

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Meeting in the middle is a nice resolution.

Trouble is sometimes when one party takes the p and abuses beyond reasonable, the halfway can seem like a greater advantage to the other than should be accepted.

It's early days.



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There are various differences in law regarding wales and England so I can only base my reply on English law. 
When in these type of situations I try to prioritise by order of importance. Getting the property let back rates at the top and if a problematic tenant is involved which potential could go to court and all the cost and time that involves I would accept the date they have given to vacate and account rent owed up to that date. Putting demands on notice periods to a troublesome tenant in my view only increased the risk of the tenant not vacating on the demanded date. After all if the tenant still vacates earlier after been given a later date you are likely to/want to go in to the property earlier to do works which would mean no further rent could be demanded as you have now taken possession yourself. My next priority would be to do a check out and calculate dilapidations and turn the property around and relet asap. Then spend time considering if it is worthwhile chasing for rent damages etc. 

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All good Grampa.

Yes there are differences in Welsh housing law, there is risk I am not fully aware. Where I'm not aware of a difference I answer as I understand from the real world.

I'm with you on get property back then worry about other issues later. I am biased here so it isn't for me to advise the outgoing tenant of legalities. There's plenty of freebies will do that already.  

I am aware of the situation that we aren't able to charge rents to 2 tenants. That being if we re let after a departure that is still paying out their notice then there must be a refund or a no charge. I have attempted to negotiate a settlement of tenancy closure in those circumstances.

Here I am selling, this being my 2nd Welsh property to go to market (t'other sold). My taking possession maybe muddies the waters if that is considered to be to my financial benefit, although i might yet be out of pocket if the market turns, as is increasingly likely. But surely it is reasonable to take possession to ensure security and no issues that could cause property deterioration.

I gave up attempting to claim for tenant damage years ago. They cite fair wear and tear and my claim fails, pointless. But the correct payment of rent during a 'valid' notice period does seem reasonable and easily demonstrated as due, assuming my understanding (as stated) is true. I do accept a judge would sympathise with a tenant so being able to state the case well would be a great advantage, should negotiations (as per RL) fail, and i decide it's got a high enough chance of success, in a Welsh court.

Welsh housing law changes seriously on 15th July,

and for a change I've been messaged of more changes on 1st December 22. I haven't looked at those yet.

Run for the hills I say, but perhaps not the Welsh hills as they tow your car away when you get there.

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Wales has rarely been landlord friendly. Even more unfriendly if you're a landlord who doesn't live in Wales. In recent years the changes and legislation has made any second home owner in Wales an enemy of the state.

England are having a similar go. Many of the changes over the last few years (mostly by the Tory Gov') have resulted in large numbers leaving the sector. Then, this week, I read that suddenly there is an even larger shortage of rental property than ever before.......surprise, surprise.

I'm sitting on a very large cash pile having sold a few properties. With high inflation eating into it and talk of it hitting 10% part of me says buy more property. The other part of me asks .....are you sure you want to, given the adverse legislation  that pervades the industry ?

The answer is that there aren't very many places anyone can put their money and get a better return.

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This morning on R4 Today program there was a discussion with a Welsh MP about the up and coming changes to housing law and the prospect of double council taxation on second homes including rental properties whereby the landlord pay some council tax as well! The Welsh government seem to have a built in hatred of landlords and holiday property owners it would appear.

If I was you COR I would sell up and get out of town on the first bus and perhaps buy a rental property in England.

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Mel the 2x council tax to 2nd property owners in Wales is the max a local authority can charge.

It comes in April 2023 and as yet Denbighshire haven't decided how much of that 200% will be applied to me and others. Btw that's in addition to the 100% that residents are paying.

I am aiming to get out, the tenant hanging on may prove to be disastrous if the market changes. Not only, but due to the Welsh Retard Assembly attack on landlords, I see the  Welsh housing market will go into decline first, and at speed. 

A question for us here in England, is will Westminster watch, amend and impose similar measure. Last night BoJo announced a right to buy for housing association tenants, can / will he decide similar is reasonable when private tenants (through Shelter and the like) shout that they are being unfairly disadvantaged.

Small thought but sub prime world market collapse started with a sort of similar directive of causing the less capable of taking ownership.

Anyway, while we can see good profits in England, I view that the tenant protecting measures have go way toooo far, and there are toooo many pretend do gooder organisation jumping on that band wagon.

We should all start making band wagons as that is a growing business.


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