Covid Jabs

[Richlist]

Are we allowed to refuse tenancies to people who have not had x2 Covid Jabs ?

[Carryon Regardless]

Please correct me where I might be out of date.

We cannot deny a tenancy on the grounds that the applicants are,

of undesirable gender (any one of 57),   are of any particular heritage (unless English).

I believe soon enough we will be unable to deny same for those with animals,  children (same thing really),   are in receipt of any benefit.

To date I'm not aware that we can deny someone who is unable to demonstrate that they have 2 valid pricks, or would that be 3 as winter progresses?

Come the time the Gov't may authorise doormen (or women, or indeed any other type of feasible gender) to request of me my medical status I may ask if they also wish to ensure themselves that my piles will not stain their upholstery. Showing 'em my arse would be appropriate.

 

 

[Melboy]

I can reveal to you all that I have had two Covid jabs  One in January and 2nd one in April.   On June 4th I contracted Covid D in spite of being very, very careful and I was very poorly for 2 weeks and almost put into hospital by the Doctor with chest breathing problems but my O2 level condition slowly improved and then I had another 3 weeks of convalescence. Doctor told me if I had not had the Covid jabs I would probably not have survived but I did and you will all have to put up with me for a lot longer now.  😀

So 2 jabs or 3 jabs it matters not. It can bite you in spite of ALL the precautions you take.

[Richlist]

Glad you are recovered Melboy. Make sure you get the booster jab.

It wasnt intended to be a trick question but there are some serious considerations here:-

Although almost all of the medical risk for an unvaccinated person remains with that person, a landlord accepting an unvaccinated tenant does expose himself to the increased chance of that tenant becoming ill, becoming unemployed and defaulting on rent payments. In other words the landlord takes on an increased risk.

So, the question for the jury is......Do you want to accept that increased risk, when most of your time is spent searching for ways to reduce your exposure to all the other risks involved in letting property ?

[Carryon Regardless]

RL while I accept your business concerns I  have great issue around the privacy, and right to that.

The idea that the unqualified being able to enquire into another's medication or lack of it abhors me.

In truth I believe it should be our choice of which qualified persons should be allowed such, in normal non legal type situations.

After all we wouldn't have thought of asking about other medical possibilities that may increase our risks.

Thin edge and all that.

 

[Richlist]

True but.....this is an unprecedented global pandemic which has killed hundreds of thousands of people. There have been restrictions arbitrarily placed on democracies which has never happened before. It's still with us and many are concerned as we move into winter. 

My take is I'd prefer vaccination to be mandatory..... the Gov' don't want that so I accept the situation. But all I'm asking is for an applicant show me their vaccination certificate along with all the other stuff that's expected like..... their passport (& visa where applicable), their bank statment, their job offer or references etc etc.

[Grampa]

Maybe it would be acceptable to ask the question on the application form and provide proof on the basis of managing  future risk for contractors and property visits.

Now, what you do with that information when you have received it prior to the tenancy being granted and weather it effects your decision making in choosing a tenant is up to you.

 

[Richlist]

I think you may misunderstand.

The danger with an unvaccinated person is mainly to themselves and far less to fully vaccinated people. A fully vaccinated person can still carry and catch Covid but there is far less chance of them being hospitalised or worse.

The issue here is not that the unvaccinated tenant will pass Covid to contractors, visitors landlords etc but that if they do contract the virus it might seriously impact their ability to meet their obligations towards paying rents.

[Carryon Regardless]

V true RL. But is the concern out of proportion?

I guess we should be concerning ourselves with England, possibly Wales for me, and treating Scotland and N.I as outside of our sphere.

But their figures do corrupt the overall UK figures a little on deaths (and presumably serious outcomes).

Infection rates are running at a little over 11% of population. Most will feel little or no effect, as demonstrated by the death rate of the UK running at a shade over 0.2%

Vaccination and future boosters would seem to reduce the possibility of infection and more so the more serious effects. So those not vaccinated are at a reduced risk of contracting it, of course they would seemingly have a greater risk of serious affects if they do. But as the 0.2% will be factoring in the earlier times, pre vaccination , the risks to the population overall is, to my mind, so low it needn't factor in to our business strategy.

The  greater risk from covid was always the overload of health services and the breakdown of our infrastructure due to losing (maybe 10%) of the key workers. We are seeing this in lesser advanced countries that are seemingly unable to manage the pandemic, with that I include America, largely due to Trump.

Now consider a possible advantage should unvaccinated tenants snuff it. They are a poor class of tenant anyway, they are less likely to manage their lives and our rents. We don't have to evict 'em, which is nigh on impossible during the pandemic.

Personally I don't intend to factor in vaccination checks. Choosing intelligent tenants should cover that concern.

 

As an aside. Russia have great vaccination hesitancy, they don't trust it. Coincidentally their infection rates are far higher than Europe in general.

[Richlist]

I agree it's an issue where we all have a freedom of choice.

My original post was actually asking if we are allowed to refuse unvaccinated applicants....& assuming there is no legal reason, I am going to choose to refuse them a tenancy. I believe I can develop an argument that proves it increases my risk vs reward to a point that is unacceptable.

This winter we are likely to need to show proof of vaccination for all sorts of activities or be refused.

[kanrent]

50 minutes ago, Richlist said:

I think you may misunderstand.

The danger with an unvaccinated person is mainly to themselves and far less to fully vaccinated people. A fully vaccinated person can still carry and catch Covid but there is far less chance of them being hospitalised or worse.

The issue here is not that the unvaccinated tenant will pass Covid to contractors, visitors landlords etc but that if they do contract the virus it might seriously impact their ability to meet their obligations towards paying rents.

They might get sick pay

[Carryon Regardless]

"My Lord, the truth of this case is that this unscrupulous, worse than a 2nd hand car sales person and slum keeper, merely used the lack of vaccination record as an excuse to reject these kind hearted, generous , clean living applicants who offered to provide valid medical reason for not taking the covid vaccine.

The reason for rejection is clearly that these 2 ladies are of Afro Caribbean and Chinese decent respectively, who have chosen to commit to each other in the Hindu church, were not to  acceptable the landlords restricted values. I ask the court to recognise the unfair disadvantage demonstrated toward these Paralympic athletes."

[kanrent]

If you decided to let only to vaccinated tenants it might be worth considering what type of vaccine they had

Example could be sinovac, sinopharm, moderna, Pfizer, 

Also consider the side effects tenants with a blood clot on the brain or heart inflammation or recently discovered Guillain-Barré Syndrome may find it difficult to pay the rent. 

Maybe many more side effects will occur as its only been a few months, who knows what side effects will occur 2 years into their tenancy 

 

[Richlist]

1 hour ago, kanrent said:

They might get sick pay

If you mean that they may get sick with non Covid illnesses, you are correct. But that risk has always existed and will continue to exist. Covid is different, its in addition to normal illnesses, it can cause serious problems, result in long periods in hospital, occasionally death and if you recover it may be a long time before you can return to work. So, as I already said it increases the landlords risk of a default in rent payments. Why would I let my property to an unvaccinated person when I have a queue of fully vaccinated waiting to move in. 

Finding fully vaccinated tenants isn't ever going to be a problem for me but you are free to make your own choices.

[Richlist]

1 hour ago, Carryon Regardless said:

"My Lord, the truth of this case is that this unscrupulous, worse than a 2nd hand car sales person and slum keeper, merely used the lack of vaccination record as an excuse to reject these kind hearted, generous , clean living applicants who offered to provide valid medical reason for not taking the covid vaccine.

The reason for rejection is clearly that these 2 ladies are of Afro Caribbean and Chinese decent respectively, who have chosen to commit to each other in the Hindu church, were not to  acceptable the landlords restricted values. I ask the court to recognise the unfair disadvantage demonstrated toward these Paralympic athletes."

Bring it on, I love a challenge.

[Richlist]

4 minutes ago, kanrent said:

If you decided to let only to vaccinated tenants it might be worth considering what type of vaccine they had

Example could be sinovac, sinopharm, moderna, Pfizer, 

Also consider the side effects tenants with a blood clot on the brain or heart inflammation or recently discovered Guillain-Barré Syndrome may find it difficult to pay the rent. 

Maybe many more side effects will occur as its only been a few months, who knows what side effects will occur 2 years into their tenancy 

 

No I don't need to concern myself with that. The various vaccines have all been approved by people who know far more about the subject than us. Stick to what you are good at......eg..mitigating unnecessary risk from your businesses.

[kanrent]

8 minutes ago, Richlist said:

Bring it on, I love a challenge.

What I'm saying is check what type of vaccination they have had because for example the sinovac vaccine is completely ineffective against the delta variant many Asians coming to live in the UK have had this vaccine and have a vaccination certificate. 

[Grampa]

6 hours ago, Richlist said:

I think you may misunderstand.

The danger with an unvaccinated person is mainly to themselves and far less to fully vaccinated people. A fully vaccinated person can still carry and catch Covid but there is far less chance of them being hospitalised or worse.

The issue here is not that the unvaccinated tenant will pass Covid to contractors, visitors landlords etc but that if they do contract the virus it might seriously impact their ability to meet their obligations towards paying rents.

I fully understood the reason for the question which you state above. How you go about requesting that info without causing offence  is the tricky bit hence my post below

 

6 hours ago, Grampa said:

Maybe it would be acceptable to ask the question on the application form and provide proof on the basis of managing  future risk for contractors and property visits.

Now, what you do with that information when you have received it prior to the tenancy being granted and weather it effects your decision making in choosing a tenant is up to you.

 

 

[Richlist]

2 hours ago, Grampa said:

 

But it's a false and inaccurate premise that is not supported by the science. An unvaccinated person doesn't present any greater risk to visitors than a vaccinated person. Id argue that it's the unvaccinated tenant who is more at risk from the visitor.

I think a vaccine rufusnik, many of whom are well read on the subject, would see through your argument immediately. But there is nothing to stop you trying it.