Carryon Regardless Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 I seem to remember that Grampa clarified this one some time ago but I'm unable to find by searching.Most will remember some of my issues at my N Wales flats, this one related to one of the issues.A male T was supported by his girlfriend as G'tor. Some time later she sold her home and she moved in with him. I was requested to "put her on the AST" but refused as there were arrears and anyway no advantage to me. Liabilities would have remained the same.Later and the Police requested I move on this tenancy to make things easier for them, so I served both S21 and S8 notices, by hand, witnessed - 30 May 14(S21 expired "After July 31st 2014")T's returned keys and surrendered, without notice to me - 20 July 14They moved just 2 doors away and continued to be gits. I approached this using a full on approach to show sincere intent as I don't actually have desires to actually use S8's, but it may have been handy to have the possibility should things have deteriorate d more and I wished for a faster execution of repossession.Never any suggestion of a defence to repossession but T did play awkward with return of deposit, but I got that anyway.Total outstanding still at over £600. Not life changing but from a business point of view if I am able to recover it would be nice. As the whole saga was abusive there would be satisfaction also.A short time later the T became a guest of HMP for 8 years, the G'tor still lives as a neighbour to the flats.The G'tor holds a manageress position in a high street bank so there is some ability to pay. I started the process by sending her the statement and a letter of "pay by" "or I will take legal action". A written response was recieved which assentially says as I had served notice and they had departed prior to notice expiry rents are paid up.Prior to progressing further I wish to cite the legislation correctly and go for the claim through MCOL for August 14 rents + a few bits, assuming the Lady will not pay up.All help appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grampa Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 Normally when a tenant is served notice via s21 and or s8 general practise as far as I am aware is to accept the tenancy has ended if the keys are returned from that date.Could you claim for a month rents because the months notice wasn't given? I see no reason why you cant but it may depend on the basis of how the keys were accepted and what was said at the time. If you didn't inform the tenant at the time or within a reasonable time that although the keys have been returned you do are still required by law to have one months notice they could argue that the tenancy was ended.Also if you entered the property within the "notice period" that could also imply the tenancy was ended.But for the purpose of MCOL if you want to take a punt just state something along the lines of :unpaid rent of £600 claimed by the claimant from the defendant for the period xxxx -xxxx due to insufficient notice given as stated in the signed tenancy agreement.If they put a defence in you will both likely have to go the local court and the judge will decide on the evidence provided such as tenancy agreements and guarantor agreements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carryon Regardless Posted November 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 Thanks Grampa, that is appreciated.I'm sure you can imagine it's not the response I was hoping for, but if that's the way it is then there is another one I must take on the chin.However,There is a common practice of serving a S21 at the start of a tenancy. I appreciate the legislation changed in October and from that some may choose to re serve each 6 months.This begs the question of what would ever prevent a T from handing back the keys in a SPT at will, no notice to us as we have served notice to them? Even though we have no right of repossession w/o court involvement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julian_S Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 So, if I read this correctly, the G'tor is the girlfriend of this guy who's now in clink and she is a bank manager?Do head office know anything of this? (I can see an easy threat here :-) )Julian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carryon Regardless Posted November 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 Yes Julian that's close enough. While I'm not sure she is branch manager, apparently she has the title of manageress. Possibly as business development or that type of thing???As the T's crime is just about the lowest, the type that has had him scalded twice I could certainly embaress her at work, She seems to be standing by his claim of innocence so any sympathy is questionable but I'm not sure I would wish to stoop to this.Aside come court day it wouldn't be difficult for a tearful lady to have me look like an evil harasser. "Do you know what her boyfriend did" isn't a relevant response for unpaid rents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julian_S Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 You don't have to do it - just the threat is probably what's needed. Banks are very sensitive to their image post insurance mis-selling, 2008 crash etc.Chances are this woman is a hard nosed thing fully conversant with being cruel and tough on poor customers and being in a position of power she can behave as a bully. You could change that with your knowledge.But the BF, what's he capable of? Maybe the sort to kill your dog or set the house alight - then it's probably best to move on. These folk always come to grief at some stage.Julian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carryon Regardless Posted November 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 I've already had a face off with the bf and another when they were totally smashed and tried to rule it over me at the flats.My botty was definitley twitching but they backed down 1st. Don't have a dog and live 80 miles away - but you never know what confidence he'll have in approx 4 years when he gets out.Food for thought though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grampa Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 This begs the question of what would ever prevent a T from handing back the keys in a SPT at will, no notice to us as we have served notice to them? Even though we have no right of repossession w/o court involvement.No. Most tenancies have a provision for a months notice to be given during a periodic tenancy. I didn't say you couldn't claim for that months notice because technically I think you can. I would be interested to see how a judge would interpret a claim but as mentioned earlier other factors need to be factored which could reinforce the tenants argument.I just think if you have to give a tenant notice due to some breach of the contract and they go without having to go down the eviction route and leave the property in reasonable condition I think myself lucky, get the property ready for re-letting find a new tenant asap and move on. If the tenant trashed the property that maybe another story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carryon Regardless Posted November 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 Hole in kitchen door,kitchen drawer front in 2 halves,smashed case on both fuse boxes,front door panel smashed from inside around letter box,carpets ruined,2 witnesses to T pulling coax from full height of building and leaving with cable,more I've forgotten about now.But since I've taken to not carrying out check in / outs I have to live with the risk I took.Apparently the coax was an accident according to the police, in other words they went through the motions and weren't really interested.There is no point in me being over emotional about this and "moving on" is good advice, but I do get p-ssed at the continual abuse never mind the massive financial losses.But as all us Landlords are millionaires we can afford it. Written by my personal assistant while I laze in the Jacuzzi supping Bollinger on my 42 metre yacht waiting for the 'copter to return so I may pop in to Saint Tropez for the evening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richlist Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 That made me smile......Although I'm surprised you only have a 42metre yacht......as everyone knows size is everthing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grampa Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 That made me smile......Although I'm surprised you only have a 42metre yacht......as everyone knows size is everthing. Its no good having a Ferrari and not knowing how to drive it. I would rather have a Morris minor and tear the hell out of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carryon Regardless Posted November 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 You're right of course, but that is the Captains job.My other boat is 16'2" and I can 'drive' that, but not while sipping Bollinger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grampa Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 Hole in kitchen door,kitchen drawer front in 2 halves,smashed case on both fuse boxes,front door panel smashed from inside around letter box,carpets ruined, If that's the case take a punt with MCOL it is a relatively small cost. I find if you have a well worded letter before action and then staple the completed court forms to it and state in the letter the paperwork (all filled out) will be sent to the courts on xx/xx/xx if payment not received does encourage payment and focus the mind.Also maybe offering a reduced rate say 15% if paid in full by xx/xx/xx can help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mortitia Posted November 18, 2015 Report Share Posted November 18, 2015 I am just about to do as Grampa suggests above to a debtor and have success by this method before. It' s worth a try Cor and may well save lots of time and angst - could a copy also find its way to her employer as Julian suggests? Banks do not like this sort of thing amongst senior staff. One has to ask how she got involved with your tenant - or maybe he has hidden assets? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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