Clothing Damaged by Washing Machine - Who is liable in the UK?

[strat]

Hello all, I have a tenant that is threatening to sue me over clothing that he says was damaged by the washing machine in the property he lets from me. I do not think that I am liable but I am very keen to hear your opinions. Here are the facts - Sept 2014 - Tenant reported machine was malfunctioning. Machine was inspected by an engineer who said that the machine was not faulty. The tenant disagreed with the engineer and said he wanted the machine replaced. I said that I would not replace the machine as the engineer had declared it in working order. The tenant did not accept this and said that he would hold me responsible for all future damage. March 2015 - Tenant reported a machine malfunction. I arranged for an engineer to attend. The engineer said that a part needed replacing that was no longer available. Therefore I had the machine replaced. The tenant demanded 450 pounds in compensation. He says he will begin legal proceedings if I do not pay out within two weeks. I understand that I am legally bound to keep the machine in good working order - I felt that I fulfilled this obligation by having the machine inspected by an engineer in Sept. (Neither I nor the tenant is a washing machine expert, therefore how could either of us contradict what an engineer says?). So, in short, I would like to know - Does this tenant have a valid case? Am I liable for all of the clothing that he is claiming is damaged? Should I pay him in order to avoid a court case that I may well lose? I do have more information, if required. However, I wanted to initially gauge opinion based solely on the basic facts. Many thanks for your help. KBH.

[Richlist]

IMHO no you are not liable.

In your shoes I would ensure that I had all the documentary evidence to hand to support my defence in any court case. Personally I'd invite the tenant to proceed with any legal action they feel in appropriate.

[Melboy]

No you have no liability. Provided you have documentry evidence to back up your story of the washing machine saga the tenant has no grounds for compensation claim from you. Let him sue you ......he won't get far.

This saga ( and other reasons) is why I never provide washing machines in my properties and I have stated this many times over the years on the forum.

If a prospective tenant doesn't like it that there is no w/machine that is fine by me..... go and find a landlord that does provide one.

[Mortitia]

Let him bring a case. How many forums do you intend to put this one on? The advice is always the same.

[Carryon Regardless]

Do you need a T like him ?

[strat]

Hello - thanks for your comments so far.

Mortitia - the answer is two. You can never get too much advice. It is heartening to know that opinions across the two boards do not differ.

Thanks again.

KBH.

[Chestnut]

Whilst I concur with above, may I add a helpful suggestion? Try advising the tenant that he/she may be able to claim clothes damage on their contents insurance. You could even offer to help with form filling paperwork.

Many years ago I did this successfully for myself after a machine overheated and scorched clothes. The only proviso was to change the wording from 'scorch' to 'fire' and the claim was accepted in full. I did of course have to value each item damaged to fill in the claim.

Reading the saga, if this was my own machine and the engineer's OK inspection was recorded, I would be writing to dealer and manufacturer's customer service for compensation of losses (for tenant's clothes and replacement machine maybe). On past experience I would expect to be successful, at least in part. £450 is small in terms of a manufacturer's customer care budget.

Then again £450 may relate to only a month or so of rent - how do you value your relationship with tenant? ....and if he loses a court case what then....?

[landlord65]

I believe the various responsibilities for "non-fixtures" should be made clear in the contract (if you have one!). When letting through an agent, the minimum "fixtures" they suggest are the 3C's (carpets, curtains and cooker). They're all the responsibility of the Landlord to replace although damage would be at the tenants expense out of the deposit. Other items such as W/Machines, Driers, Dish Washers etc should be described as "non-fixtures" in the contract and the tenants responsibility to replace.

When interviewing new tenants, I have my own notes to give them at the interview so that they know what they're signing up for in the eventual contract. My notes make it clear I will only be responsible for the cooker. If there's no contract .......... well, as SSM says above "how do you value your tenant". Possibly better to perhaps go halves, or even pay up, to keep them sweet.

[Chestnut]

I have not come across concept of 'non-fixture' at this scale and doubt responsibility for replacement would be accepted by a tenant.

If landlord owns washing machine, or any supplied equipment, I consider it landlord's responsibility to repair or replace if it breaks down, unless proved beyond doubt that tenant caused failure. Better solution, as Melboy, is not to supply.

Items I would expect tenant to replace are small inexpensive wearing items such as light bulbs, tap washers, alarm batteries etc. listed clearly in contract.

[Richlist]

Agree with Chestnut 100%

If landlord supplies it then it's on the inventory and is the landlords responsibility irrespective of any'unfair' terms you want to include in your contract.

How can you possibly say to a tenant I'm supplying a washing machine but if it breaks you are responsible for its repair or replacement ?

[Grampa]

Agree with Chestnut 100%

How can you possibly say to a tenant I'm supplying a washing machine but if it breaks you are responsible for its repair or replacement ?

I believe trading standards approved this type of clause a number of years ago but I think its only for repair.

We have this type of clause in our tenancy agreements but its very rare we fall back on it and normally the landlord will pay for a repair. We would only refuse to repair if we were in the process of evicting or had a tenant we knew was heavy handed and kept breaking it or using it inappropriately like washing horse blankets.

[Richlist]

The devil is often in the detail.

What happens if the machine breaks down and the tenant / or their repair man attempts a repair and says its can't be repaired or is beyond economic repair.

Does the landlord get a 2nd opinion ?

Does the landlord buy a new machine ?

Does the landlord tell the tenant to sort it out ?

What happens if it's a built in machine ?

Is the landlord responsible for disposing of the old machine ?

Who pays for delivery & connection of the new machine ?

Who owns the new machine ?

Trying to implement the trading standards approach looks like a real bag of worms.

With washing machines availabe at under £200 why make it so difficult for yourself ?

[landlord65]

@ Chestnut, Richlist & Grampa - No, I'm not supplying a Washing Machine etc ..... its already in the house (possibly even a brand new one left by the previous tenant). If the new tenant doesn't want it they can dispose of it and supply their own. All I'm saying is that I won't be responsible for it if they choose to use it. It may well be better than the one they have themselves!

[Richlist]

Ok, so what you are doing, in effect, is giving the new tenant a washing machine which they will own and which is not on the inventory. They can choose to use, sell or replace.

I've done this myself because I haven't wanted to supply a washing machine but I certainly wouldn't want to be gifting the incoming tenant a dishwashes, drier, freezer or any other white goods.

[Grampa]

I agree its not ideal but it gives the landlord the option of when to enforce it and that's the point.

We manage 300ish properties & this only becomes a issue 4-5 times a year.

The devil is often in the detail.
What happens if the machine breaks down and the tenant / or their repair man attempts a repair and says its can't be repaired or is beyond economic repair.

Does the landlord get a 2nd opinion ? Not happened yet
Does the landlord buy a new machine ? To date yes or had it removed and the tenant then supplies their own.
Does the landlord tell the tenant to sort it out ? If we manage the property and consider it appropriate we would tell the tenant.
What happens if it's a built in machine ? Doesn't normally apply.
Is the landlord responsible for disposing of the old machine ? Yes but sometimes the tenants offer to do it.
Who pays for delivery & connection of the new machine ? Whoever paying for the machine.
Who owns the new machine ? If the landlord pays for it the landlord owns it. If the tenant pays for it, it depends on under what circumstances it was agreed that they buy it and then followed up with a letter so they is a paper trail.

Trying to implement the trading standards approach looks like a real bag of worms.

With washing machines availabe at under £200 why make it so difficult for yourself ?

[strat]

Hello again,

Thanks for your continuing comments. To add some detail to this particular case -

1 The original engineer changed a single component and then declared the machine serviceable (Sept 2014)

2 The second engineer said that a part needed replacing that was no longer available; therefore machine needed replacing (March 2015)

3 The two issues with the machine were NOT related

4 As landlord, I paid for both engineer visits

5 As landlord, I organized a replacement machine asap after being advised that the existing one needed to be changed

6 The tenant says I am liable to pay him for time taken off work in order for him to be home to allow the first two engineer visits

7 The tenant refused to be home to accept delivery of the replacement machine. I arranged someone to be there (at my own expense)

8 The tenant has already said that he will not be staying past the current contract. It has been implied that his check out/deposit process will be a lengthy one if I do not pay what he is demanding

9 He has admitted that the clothing allegedly damaged in the first wash (Sep 14) has bee thrown away; the damage allegedly caused in Mar 15 was caused over two separate wash cycles.

10 I advised to use his insurance in Sep 14 and again in Mar 15. He refused and said that I should be using my insurance to cover the cost of his clothing.

I have all of this documented. I feel that I acted in good faith to provide a serviceable washing machine. When a fault was reported I immediately arranged an engineer visit (on both occasions); when the machine was declared no longer fit-for-use I had it replaced quickly.

Thanks for your continuing opinions.

regards,

KBH.

[Richlist]

Tenants are not entitled to any better treatment than an owner occupier would receive in the same situation. Some tenants believe they have a special entitlement over and above others because they pay rent. That IS NOT the case.

[Melboy]

Last March on a change of tenants the vacating tenant asked if I would like to buy their washing machine.

I explained to them that washing machines to a landlord such as myself were the devil's work and I personally never provide washing machines due to too many previous bad experiences of tenant neglect on newly provided washing machines.

The incoming tenant bought the washing machine because at the time it made sense for them for £85. Full working order. It lasted all of 5 months and had to be written off beyond economical repair. They bought a new one for £225..

[Grampa]

I agree supplying W/M isn't my preference either.

The last flat I brought had a shower room with a plumbed in W/M. So I in my wisdom decided to fit a new suite with a bath with overhead shower and still have enough space for the W/M to go in a nice built in unit. Then when finished I realised you couldn't get the W/M in the room without taking the bathroom door off as the sink was in the way.

So not wanting tenants to take doors off to fit their own I bought a new W/M on special from Currys. The decision was do I buy a cheap one that may only last 2-3 years or a better quality one for double the price.

I went for the cheap one £150 but took out the insurance (which I avoid like the plague normally) at £3 pcm which means any breakdown the tenant calls out the engineer and if it is un-repairable they (insurance policy) replace it with a new one. Though I guess I will have to take the door off if it ever needs replacing.

I,m guessing a good quality W/M may last 5-6 ish years in a tenanted property which would have cost about £350 (with 1-2 year guarantee) where my cheap one in 5 years will cost £330 and still covered by insurance and be replaced if unrepairable.

I'm sure I'm missing something but it seemed like a good idea AT THE TIME.

[Melboy]

I have just come back from B&Q Depot and they are selling washing machines...... Indeset..... for £200 with 2 years parts and labour guarantee. Not bad for a cheapy.

[Richlist]

My experience has taught me not to underestimate the quality of cheaper washing machines. The fact that they are cheaper doesn't necessarily mean it's because the quality, durability and reliability is worse than more expensive models. It's usually because they have fewer programs, less technology and as a result there is less to go wrong.

When I started letting I bought 3 new w/machines and paid for extended guarantees taking it to 5 years of cover. All of those machines lasted at least 10 years, one lasted nearly 12 but it had become noisy.

I no longer supply w/machones in my properties but if I did I'd buy the cheapest available.

[Grampa]

We use a guy who repairs washing machines but also rents them out to tenants who cant afford to buy one and having done this for many years he consistently says never ever buy a Bush as in his opinion they are the worst made and least reliable out of all the brands including the other cheaper brands.

[Grampa]

I 'm taking the view that for £36 pa its worth taking out the insurance as that would cover one call out to a engineer every 18 months to 2 years and I also don't have to get involved as the tenant would contact them. (insurance policy engineer)