Rachel09 Posted February 17, 2016 Report Share Posted February 17, 2016 Hi All we rented out our property to friends (married couple) just over 18 months ago. the wife left him. So we had 2 other friends move in with him, we were unaware that this then became a hmo (always dealt with families) . The original tenant wasn't getting along with the 2 new tenants and didn't want his tenancy renewed as he wanted to leave, we then signed a new 6mths ast with remaining 2 friends. it has all got a bit ugly as being friends they thought they could pay rent when they felt like it. They are now out of tenancy and we want to serve a section 21 periodic. The issue we have is that they will not allow us access to the house to do inspection or gas safety. They complained to council about property being in disrepair. Council attended with us and still couldn't gain access so no further action taken. We've had no rent since October 2015. we have now found out that the original tenant is still residing at the property, so do we have to serve all 3 with a section 21 as he wasn't on the new tenancy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grampa Posted February 17, 2016 Report Share Posted February 17, 2016 Very Messy. QUESTIONS: 1. Do all the residents have individual tenancy agreements? 2. Did you ever take rent payments directly off the 2 extra tenants who moved in at a later date 3. Was a deposit taken from any of them and was it protected correctly. How many floors in the property as that could impact on the type of HMO and whether you can use a s21 or not If 2 months rent is owing you could use a section 8 using grounds 8,10,11 which means you could apply for a court hearing 14 days after service. You can then apply on line and will get a hearing date as soon as you complete the form and pay. It should be no longer that 8 weeks later but normally 4-6 weeks depending how busy your local court is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rachel09 Posted February 17, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2016 Two tenants on one agreement. we have taken rent payments and recorded it in a rent book. no deposit taken (stupidly) as they were close friends. two floors, we were told it's not a Hmo as we only signed the two tenants and we believe they are subletting. We went to court with a section 8 but uncessful as the judge would not take proof of postage as evidence that we had posted a section 8 and statement of rent arrears. Courts are really busy so thought a section 21 might be easiest route. Thank you for your reply Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melboy Posted February 17, 2016 Report Share Posted February 17, 2016 Yes, very messy. Not taking the deposit has probably helped your situation in an ironic sense. This reply won't make your situation any better but as we do get hundred's of prospective and Newbie landlord's reading these topics and it is a well know fact that renting to "friends" is not advisable as they could become "ex friends" very quickly as shown in Rachel09 circumstances. Recorded Royal Mail in all matter's when dealing with the Court's, Judges etc. is advisable.......No.... essential! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rachel09 Posted February 17, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2016 Thank you Melboy we were advised against recorded delivery in case the tenants refuse to sign. Will never rent to friends again we would rather give them some money to stay in a b&b. We just need to know if we have to give all three a section 21, even thou there are only two on tenancy, complete headache. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melboy Posted February 17, 2016 Report Share Posted February 17, 2016 3 minutes ago, Rachel09 said: We were advised against recorded delivery in case the tenants refuse to sign. They don't have to sign Rachel. You only need Royal Mail proof of recorded delivery or returned unsigned recorded mail for the Courts. Bad advice given to you by whoever gave it to you. Regarding the gas inspection it is not something that any tenant can stop. ( plenty of experience on this one! ). This can be a precedence on gaining entry to the property. I believe you can obtain an immediate court order for entry but I would imagine it comes at a cost to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richlist Posted February 17, 2016 Report Share Posted February 17, 2016 The refusal to allow access for a gas check puts all the neighbours property at risk, may affect their insurance cover (buildings and life insurance) is a threat to life itself, a breach of the peace and affects all those innocent people walking by and making deliveries. The postman won't want to deliver mail and it could cause havoc in the street. Ok.....i know that's completely over the top but is it ? The law has determined that an annual gas safety check is mandatory. I think if I were a neighbour I'd help force entry for the gas inspection and then let the law take its course. Bet I'd get off very lightly.......but I'd be willing to take the chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rachel09 Posted February 17, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2016 Looks like we just need to force our way in for gas safety check, Would this jeopardise court action to evict them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melboy Posted February 17, 2016 Report Share Posted February 17, 2016 18 minutes ago, Rachel09 said: Looks like we just need to force our way in for gas safety check, Would this jeopardise court action to evict them Not advisable Rachel. I cannot tell you how we got around the problem on a public forum but you may want to read this article so you have a clear mind on the action you may have to take. http://www.landlordlawblog.co.uk/2010/09/28/gas-safety-checks-can-landlords-do-them-anyway-even-if-tenants-say-no/ You have to remember that the the Courts are very rarely on the side of the Landlord in these modern times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rachel09 Posted February 17, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2016 Cheers Melboy Will have a good read of that. Just waiting for our solicitor to ring me back with regards to serving section 21 to the tenant who hasn't got a tenancy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melboy Posted February 17, 2016 Report Share Posted February 17, 2016 For everyone else reading this topic you can see that the bat for the landlord is well and truly stuffed where the sun doesn't shine. when it comes to gas safety inspections. Ridiculous isn't it that you could be liable for a non co-operating tenant. "Trying to explain to a judge that it was ok to enter into the property because you needed a GSC will do little good. It may reduce the level of damages the tenant will be entitled to claim but it will still do little good and will certainly not amount to a defence.The High Court endorsed an injunction for access to carry out a GSC earlier this year. This is an irritating route for the landlord but undoubtedly the correct one and any suggestion to a judge that you had to enter to carry out a check will probably be met by the suggestion that an injunction should have been sought.There is never a good reason to enter onto residential property over a tenant’s clearly expressed objections." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richlist Posted February 17, 2016 Report Share Posted February 17, 2016 Better make sure you DON'T live next door to a rental property then. Although the mandatory safety checks are partly to ensure safe CO levels its also to ensure there is no risk of gas leaks /explosion. What a ridiculous state of affairs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grampa Posted February 17, 2016 Report Share Posted February 17, 2016 If it was only a proof of service issue for the failure of the section 8 then I would say do it again and get better proof this time as that would save 6 weeks against a s21 from scratch and you will also get a ccj against the tenants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rachel09 Posted February 17, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2016 Courts have a backlog so no quicker to serve a section 8 this time, we have a ccj against the previous tenant and have now applied for an attachment of earnings. We don't care if it's £5 a week but we will get it. Solictor didn't get back to me with regards to serving a section 21 on the person living there without a tenancy ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carryon Regardless Posted February 18, 2016 Report Share Posted February 18, 2016 V sorry to hear of you woes Rachel, from experience I know the stress you are under. A shame this is just shrugged off so easily. For years it has been a common practice to serve with proof of postage for the reason you state, and I have had success with this method and was undefended even at hearings. I generaly did follow up with the same through the box also though. So as not to confuse (hijack) this thread I shall start a new one. Good luck, with our courts you bloody need it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mortitia Posted February 18, 2016 Report Share Posted February 18, 2016 Rachel - get your Section 21 served and underway. Gas safety - send the tenants a note - put through door with pic taken saying that you will attend with the gas engineer on what ever date at such and such time. Go there, ring bell and if no answer enter and get the certificate done. If they answer the door then negotiate getting the gas done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grampa Posted February 18, 2016 Report Share Posted February 18, 2016 I still dont understand how a s21 can be the same time as a s8 as "Courts have a backlog so no quicker" Serve a S21 today 17.02.16, the 2 months expire 16.04.16. Court papers then submited and hearing approx 6 weeks later on 28th May 2016 Serve a S8 today 17.02.16 the 2 weeks expire on the 02.03.16. Court papers submited and hearing approx 6 weeks later on 13th April 2016 If there is no dispute over the arrears or disrepair its got to be the sensilble route to go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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