Paul smith Posted February 5, 2013 Report Share Posted February 5, 2013 Hi I have a tenant that hasn't paid rent themselves for 6 months the rent has been covered by the guarantor and by the council once she fell in to arrears. she was issued a section 21 and was fully aware she was due to leave by today. However she is still in the property. What are my next steps. The back garden is full of rubbish bags and I keep getting complaints from neighbours regarding all night parties. I will be returning to the property myself once they have left. The letting agent has arranged to view the property tomorrow morning at 10am as an inspection. I have just found out she wants the inspection date to be changed to Friday. As far as I'm concerned her tenancy is up today. What is my next choice can I go in tomorrow and change the locks and throw them out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carryon Regardless Posted February 5, 2013 Report Share Posted February 5, 2013 "What is my next choice can I go in tomorrow and change the locks and throw them out?" If you do some simple searching you'll find the answer soon enough. To the other questions too as all this has been covered here very recently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antnkel Posted February 5, 2013 Report Share Posted February 5, 2013 A section 21 only informs the tenant that you intend to apply to court to evict them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carryon Regardless Posted February 5, 2013 Report Share Posted February 5, 2013 Although "NOTICE REQUIRING POSSESSION OF A DWELLING-HOUSE LET UNDER AND ASSURED SHORTHOLD TENANCY" with a definite date suggests otherwise. An issue I have with 'our' designed system is that the very often abusive T's suffer no penalty for failure to comply with the notice 'that states sort of clearly the requirement of them', I've always had issue with the "This Notice Expires After". If we assume the property is then back in our possession, as suggested by the OP, the penalties for us can be very scary. To comply legally we must spend more dosh, wait much longer, and hope we have followed the states requirements absolutely correctly. I find it easy to understand why some might use their own methods as the states procedures are far from user (LL that is) friendly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antnkel Posted February 5, 2013 Report Share Posted February 5, 2013 After letting my first house out without really knowing anything at all, I then began a very long road of finding out how a LL has very little rights over his own property once it's let out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grampa Posted February 6, 2013 Report Share Posted February 6, 2013 I am not sure I agree with the above statement. If a tenant is in arrears/owing by 2 months a section 8 can be served and a section 21 can be served at any time as long as it served correctly within the correct timescales and any deposit protected. I do agree a tricky tenant can delay court proceedings but that doesn’t happen very often. Too many landlords complain about tenants having too many rights but a high percentage of those, are landlords who jumped into property management half-cocked without a good agent, guarantor, insurance, took the first tenant who applied, believed every excuse the tenant gives, don’t understand the basics of benefit payments, not done regular inspections, don’t belong to a landlord organisation, taken advise from CAB or street conveyancing solicitors and not property professionals. All the info is out there on the web and if all landlords at least read the property forums before they buy or start renting that would stop a lot of problems before they start. Note: I am not directing this post at anyone particular it is just my little rant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antnkel Posted February 6, 2013 Report Share Posted February 6, 2013 I just think the system leans in favour of the tenant, especially if money's owed at the end of a tenancy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mortitia Posted February 6, 2013 Report Share Posted February 6, 2013 Let's hope that in the case of Paul Smith the Section 21 issued was the correct one and is valid or if he goes for a Section 8 the let property is in sound condition. Being a landlord is not easy and sometimes you just have to learn by your mistakes. Mortitia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grampa Posted February 6, 2013 Report Share Posted February 6, 2013 I just think the system leans in favour of the tenant, especially if money's owed at the end of a tenancy. Buts that why you have a guarantor, deposit and or rent insurance. Yes I know it’s not always possible but that is when you have to make a commercial business decision and take any risk that goes with it. Being a landlord isn’t risk free and if we want risk free we would put our cash in the post office and not property. You just have to cover as many bases as possible to reduce any risk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antnkel Posted February 6, 2013 Report Share Posted February 6, 2013 I understand that, but what's the point in a deposit? No point really, also if a tenant isn't paying the rent and knows how to play the system then it can be months before you get anywhere near your property which could be trashed by that time. The law should be fair not set out to either side. None of this has happened to me by the way, just my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul smith Posted February 6, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2013 Hi thank you for all your comments so far. The rent is currently up to date thanks to the guarantor and council although having to wait a long time for the payments. I do let other properties but have never had this issue so have been quite fortunate. All my property go through a letting agent so i am hopeing all the paperwork is correct. Am i right in thinking i now need a solicitor to obtain me a possession order then if they arent gone by that date the court bailiffs? Although i would rather go in and change the locks (but i do understand why we can't) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carryon Regardless Posted February 6, 2013 Report Share Posted February 6, 2013 All fair points Grampa, but I can't totally agree. If we consider that the state is keen for social stability (and is a benefit to the majority) and secure (reliable) family living is a great part of that, we start to understand how things have evolved to what they are. The state can't offer stable alternative housing to the private sector so loads the responsibility on to us to carry that responsibility We can see this where we have 'requirements' that aren't required of local authorities for same / similar housing. An imbalance that assumes, incorrectly, that public housing will be to the desired standard set for us. Your point of the commercial decision of G'tor, deposit waivers meaning greater risk is recognised, I've made such decisions of waiver after lengthy voids myself. But I've also had a G'tor in court where the consideration for him was nothing short of insulting to me. Then there is check in / check out for recovery from any deposit. Even when we demonstrate abuse any 'doubt' (he says sarcastically) is given in favour of the T. We have been required to spend more money for what is unlikely to serve advantage for us. Example, my carpets will last 12 years comfortably but a T's carpets should only last 4 or 5 when it comes to proportioning value. The whole principle of 'Deposit Protection' is protection for the T's. It totally ignores the massive tenancy abuses the real world is aware of while using the few LL abuses as the excuse for its creation. Then this system set up by our state gives us onerous conditions to comply with or we suffer heavy penalties, giving more encouragement for T's to screw us for their 'compensation' as if they didn't already have enough incentive with such as HB. If we don't inspect each 3 months, that many might consider an invasion of the right to peaceful existence, we get what we deserve it's been implied. Now when you inspect and see some cat hairs, a door has been scratched, try getting rid before they have time for more abuse. Actually even if you are aware they are moving a plantation into the loft you'll lose much dosh before they're moved on. I could go on but that little vent will do for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grampa Posted February 6, 2013 Report Share Posted February 6, 2013 I understand that, but what's the point in a deposit? No point really, also if a tenant isn't paying the rent and knows how to play the system then it can be months before you get anywhere near your property which could be trashed by that time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mortitia Posted February 6, 2013 Report Share Posted February 6, 2013 Paul Smith - no you don't need a solicitor - you can fill out the court for yourself pay £60 and wait for a judgement. Tenant is usually re-homed at local authority by that time but if she still stays then you fill out another form and pay £110 for court bailiff to attend. Mortitia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul smith Posted February 6, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2013 Hi mortita , Thank you for your reply. Is it the possession order I need to fill out at the court £60 Thanks Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grampa Posted February 6, 2013 Report Share Posted February 6, 2013 Its £175 to apply for a possession order via s21 using court form N5b. The council will not rehouse the person if they view that they made themselves intentionally homeless. Rent arrears IS classed as intentionally homeless by my council but it could vary from council to council I guess but I doubt it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul smith Posted February 7, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2013 another update the tenant would not allow access this morning to the agent and will only talk with the agent through the guarantor. The guarantor is having to act as a go between. The tenant has an opintment with the council this morning and we are hopeing that they sort the tenant and the daughter with emergency housing? Not sure how long emergency housing takes? If there is no outcome from this today then i will proceed with the possession order Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carryon Regardless Posted February 7, 2013 Report Share Posted February 7, 2013 Involve the G'tor as much as they wish. They have responsibility here and the communication gives good opportunity for that to be reiterated, they very often are a great help toward resolution. If the property isn't being abused, and the rent are being paid, why are you in a rush to repossess ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul smith Posted February 8, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 8, 2013 The tenant will not allow inspection from the agency, even forced inspection the tenant has bolted the door from the inside. The back garden is full of rubbish as in about 50 bags, there are continuous complaints from neighbours as there is parties most weekends running all night. There is also a large possibility she is sub letting my property. Most importantly i need to move into the property shortly due to a new addition to my family and the house is big enough for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul smith Posted February 13, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2013 The tenant has had a meeting yesterday with the council but we are awaiting the outcome of this meeting hopefully have it this morning. the guarantor has informed the agency that the tenant has packed and is ready to go, if this is true then that sounds hopeful. I have spoken with the solicitor who says there are 2 ways to deal with this but the way he suggests is accelerated possession order which sounds good until I discovered the costs and arrears are non recoverable from the guarantor or tenant using this method? So not only has she been living in my house since the 5/2/13 for free it'll cost at least 600 to get this order that if we don't need bailiffs and then I have swallow all the expense. Surely this is wrong otherwise what is there to prevent her doing this to another landlord, what sort of deterant is this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grampa Posted February 13, 2013 Report Share Posted February 13, 2013 If you go down the section 8 route you can also get judgement for the arrears against the tenant but as she is on benefits it is very unlikely you will see any money from her. So if the s21 is ready to go use that route.The guarantor is the person you will be chasing for arrears damages etc. But wait untilyou get your property back to put a final figure on it first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul smith Posted February 23, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2013 Hi Just an update We have now employed the services of a solicitor who has started proceedings for a possession order by applying to the court with all our |section 21 evidence and witness statements. In the meantime the guarantor has been in touch and the tenant is moving out by this monday coming as the guarantor is helping the tenant move and we are all meeting at the property Monday afternoon for an inspection and key hand over. Any arrears have been almost made good by the guarantor, so we need to assess what happens via the way of the deposit depending on house damage. then need to decide how i proceed in recovering my 600 so far spent with solicitors (if i proceed down that route). Just thought i would give an update and askf ro views and thoughts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richlist Posted February 23, 2013 Report Share Posted February 23, 2013 I see the £600 legal cost as a legitimate expense you have incurred that should be born by the tenant or, in this case, the guarantor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grampa Posted February 23, 2013 Report Share Posted February 23, 2013 I see the £600 legal cost as a legitimate expense you have incurred that should be born by the tenant or, in this case, the guarantor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carryon Regardless Posted February 26, 2013 Report Share Posted February 26, 2013 I agree that it's morally correct for you to recover the legal costs. Correct me if my understanding is incorrect Grampa but the County Court don't award these costs so there would be no point trying to recover them through the County Court. Another case here of a G'tor demonstrating their value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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