Picking up the pieces

[Grampa]

Just been given a property to rent by a landlord who was using another agent. the family that are living there are about 5 months in arrears and situation is getting worst the the previous agent wasnt improving the situation other than

serving a s21..

Went through the paperwork (wasnt much). They (agent) have lost the AST, no precribed info given, wrong s21 used.

Record of rent payments a mess also.

And letting agents wonder why they get a bad name.

[Richlist]

But the bad news is that the bad agents are likely to continue to get work from landlords who ask no questions, carry out no checks and assume that walking into a high street lettings agent is all they need to do to have their property managed properly.......and that probably applies to 90% + of all landlords!

[LLAW96]

I act as a consultant to a number of agents and even I am surprised with the number of ways in which they can get things wrong. I will not relay some of the horror stories I see but it does keep me on my toes.

[Grampa]

That wasn't the whole story and I guess there is more to come but they (previous agent) have advised the landlord that the tenant can be evicted on the S21 which is invalid due to:

1 S21(4)(A) used but a S21(1)( should have been used.

2 New contract (extension) given after s21 served

3 No prescribed info given.

4 Letter given to tenant saying s21 wont be acted on if arrears paid.

Complete lack of housing law knowledge that boarders of the incompetence.

I am now going to serve the prescribed info so a valid s21 can be served and then serve a s8 with grounds 8,10,11. I did suggest it may be cheaper and quicker to offer an bung to get the tenant to leave.

Watch this space

[Grampa]

Any one come across contract extentions before? I always use a new contract to keep it simple.

[Grampa]

I act as a consultant to a number of agents and even I am surprised with the number of ways in which they can get things wrong. I will not relay some of the horror stories I see but it does keep me on my toes.

Go on please share.

[Richlist]

Any one come across contract extentions before? I always use a new contract to keep it simple.

I've never heard of them.

None of the agents that I have ever used has ever mentioned an extension......its always periodic or a new AST.

[Carryon Regardless]

By extension do they mean renewal ? I don't see how it could be other apart from a SPT.

[LLAW96]

Examples;

1. Serving four week notice to quit instead of s.21 or s.8 notices

2. Treating trespassers as tenants and failing to seek IPO within 28 days

3. Litigating claims for possession as the claimant

4. Failing to identify who owned the property or had a proprietary interest

5. Failure to serve valid s.8 s.21 notices

6. Taking cash payments without issuing receipts

7. Failing to take prompt/any action to secure a landlords interest re abatment notices

8. Evicting tenants without a court order leaving their client to defend unlawful eviction proceedings

9. Repeated and systemic failures to carryout proper checks and records

10. Failure to expressly include grounds 10,11,12 in assured shorthold tenancy agreements

Lately I have been getting a lot of calls re rent deposits, agents have not taken on board the changes brought in by the localism act. They cannot fathom why the DPS will not take retrospective deposits or what to do to protect their client's position. Don't forget you trust these people to look after your interests and get you a proper return on your money, choose the wrong one and you could be in hot water.

Recently I spent a week at an agents office putting everything in order for them. This included showing them how to prepare a proper rent statement, how to pay deposit money in to the DPS, how to undertake credit checks. I also prepared standard documents for them relating to such things as rent arrears, disrepair, notices. Every active tenant file was examined and effectively put in order. The most serious issue related to one property that they had managed for a long time, no s.20 notice issued and therefore an assured tenancy created. This agent had been in business for over 30 years and had an established client base, but their knowledge of housing law seemed to have ended in the 1980's. Although this is not typical of most agents it is an example of what's out there.

[Mortitia]

EXTENTIONS

Yes I have used and still use these depending on the tenant - some don't seem happy unless they have paperwork.

I don't stipulate a length of tenancy but it goes something like this............

'the parties agree to uphold the conditions as set out in the tenancy agreement blah de blah .'......then I go on to say 1 month notice is required from tenant and LL has to give 2 months notice.

Never had any problem with it and evicted at least 2 who have had this type of extention.

Is this what you meant Grampa?

Mortitia

[Richlist]

Mortitia,

Perhaps I'm missing something here but,........ 'the parties agree to uphold the conditions as set out in the tenancy agreement blah de blah .'......then I go on to say 1 month notice is required from tenant and LL has to give 2 months notice.......that is exactly what you get if your tenancy agreement becomes periodic. So whats the difference ?

[Carryon Regardless]

Mortitia it seems as though you are clarifying the SPT for a T, providing 'paperwork' for their piece of mind due to lack of their understanding of what is anyway ??

[Mortitia]

Quite right Richlist . When I first started letting many moons ago using a well know London agent that was their 'extension' of tenancy and I copied it. Nowadays agents just issue a new agreement and charge a fee.

I only use agents for tenant find these days but still find the 'extension' useful.

Mortitia

[Carryon Regardless]

LAW I think your last post demonstrates just how complex this little industry is.

Too complicated in my mind and for the many that we know that get caught out I imagine they would agree.

I've said before that it has evolved into a very clumsy state. There are far too many people getting it wrong, many with training and experience. It needs replacing with a user friendly design. The Gov't aims for stability in housing, for obvious reasons. The crap we have now is a contradiction to that aim.

[Mortitia]

LAW I think your last post demonstrates just how complex this little industry is.

Too complicated in my mind and for the many that we know that get caught out I imagine they would agree.

I've said before that it has evolved into a very clumsy state. There are far too many people getting it wrong, many with training and experience. It needs replacing with a user friendly design. The Gov't aims for stability in housing, for obvious reasons. The crap we have now is a contradiction to that aim.

[Mortitia]

Cor - this is not a little industry - it is a massive business in every town in England and Wales and with population increase and lack of home buying it will get bigger.

The laws are vague, overly complicated, too reliant on the county court and its fey judges, landlords are hindered by thick solicitors - I could go on...........so we are left to thrash answers out on forums such as this.

Mortitia

[Carryon Regardless]

I sorta stand corrected.

Although there are some large LL's (size of portfolio wise), in the main I believe the greater potion of this widespread industry is operated by the little guy with a few properties.

Like many smaller business operators the responsibilities are ever increasing due to legislative controls. These are sometimes understandable (as to why they are created not their practical application) but I see very little, if any, assistance toward helping the little guy understand his compliance requirements.

The bigger business operators while still having the burden can create a department or employ a consultant (as with LAW in his post). If I, and many more, tried this there would be no business. As you say we, and other industries, attempt to get around the problem with places like this if there is time, and often for many when trying to close the stable door.

As these controls seem to be created and amended almost daily I am turning more now to giving 'less' heed to them and just plodding at it with my view of common sense.

Most certainly I no longer try to create ideal situations for my lesser abled T's. Realising this will take my time and often money they tend to get minimum attention nowadays. My priority is cashflow and keeping them happy enough to maintain that.

[LLAW96]

Not all solicitors are thick, and I have a number of client's who have only one or two properties. In reality the knack is knowing how to put things right once they have gone off the rails.

[Mortitia]

I totally agree with what you write LAW but I have lost count the amount of times on here we have advised LL's to seek the services of a SPECIALIST landlord/tenant solicitor as the standard model is often not up to the job, will charge you loadsa money and make matters worse.

Mortitia