Mysterious leak

[anita.z]

Good morning to you all!

Given the combined experience in the forum, I thought I invite you to give your two pennies worth …. Situation as follows:

First time landlord - Bought a conversion Victorian flat in 2010, both bathroom/kitchen renovated by a builder during Dec 2010/Feb 2011. Flat has been let from March 2011 without any issues. So far so good or beginners luck perhaps?

Then on Tuesday, I get a call from the tenant saying that downstairs tenant has alerted him as there's water dripping through their front room ceiling their front room is more or less below our flat's kitchen - more than bathroom. I ask tenant to check the washing machine connection seems all fine he says. I go on site last night we take out bath panel just in case. Whilst we're doing that the ceiling downstairs flat collapses. Soaked plaster everywhere.

Everything under our bath is dry we try running water, nothing evident coming through downstairs. We switch on central heating, no drop in pressure. We take out washing machine, all is well. In short we're puzzled. Checked out all other connections, wc, basin, kitchen sink everything seems to be in order.

The building has 5 flats, there is one flat above ours who knows how the pipes run in the building, certainly not me. Management Agent luckily seems helpful enough and will arrange for the leak to be investigated…. At this point I don't know whether is too early to breath relief yet I certainly shall be reading the small print in my landlord's insurance policy very carerfully.

If anyone has experiences of unusual leaks or suggestions what it might be, I would be interested to hear….

[Richlist]

I think you have acted absolutely brilliantly. My thoughts are:

1. Rather than a water supply pipe there is every chance its

* an underfloor waste pipe or

* it could be a blocked trap or

* a broken waste joint or

* a bath/ basin/ sink overflow that isn't sealed properly.

2. I'd have thought it would be easier to trace from downstairs now that the ceiling is no longer in place.

3. REMEMBER.....you are only liable for the downstairs repair costs if you have been negligent. From what you say you have acted promptly and professionally and have not been negligent. Chances are the downstairs damage won't cost you or your insurance anything.

4. We have had a lot of rain lately ......can you be sure its not a blocked rain gully or leaking balcony or window frame ?

[Melboy]

My bet is an underfloor waste pipe....leaking or pulled joint?

Probably from the main soil pipe stack is as good a guess.

[Chestnut]

In my experience it takes quite a lot of water to drop a ceiling.

Concurring with above suggestions, note that water can collect in ceiling against a joist and run along to gather at lowest/weakest points of ceiling, probably out of sight. i.e. not necessarily starting from directly above.

I once had water from use of a shower catch on tops of half tiled bath, go down behind the tiles (between tiles and wall), unseen behind the bath, and eventually appear through lounge light fitting below and the other side of a wall. Needless to say I found the source in reverse order to this track after much searching around all other bathroom stuff over several days. Solved by fully tiling round bath up to ceiling - above shower level.

Keep us posted!

[Mortitia]

Definitely look at water possibly getting behind tiles and where bath/sink meets wall.

Only yesterday I was called to a property where water from a power shower had got over the side of the bath, run between floor and bath panel and come out in a stairwell and kitchen ceiling. This had been going on for some time with no one noticing - sub floor under bath has disintegrated. All this due to tenant not using shower curtain in correct manner!

Artic cat - I agree with others that a leaking waste somewhere will be the cause of your problem.

Mortitia

[anita.z]

Thank you all for your contributions so far!

I will indeed keep you updated of the outcome.

[Carryon Regardless]

I usually start with what's been different recently,

work done,

change in tenants, lifestyle ????

The big difference over the last couple of weeks has been the rainfall for most in UK. The guess list now is pretty extensive.

Is there an area of (the now removed ceiling} that shows a greater level of saturation ?

[anita.z]

Afternoon to everyone,

Just gave a ring to the Managing Agent as have not heard from them and as it's nearly a week I thought they must have had time to clean up/investigate the matter.

At this moment in time, we are no closer at finding the cause of the leak. They have found that the ceiling joists are/were very wet in the area which would be under our flat's bathroom. The managing agent suggested that the tenat might have let the bath overflow - possible, of course, but I doubt it. I would have thought there would have been some evidence of such event at our flat - but it was all bone dry as far as I could tell.

Intrestingly, no more water has come through....and it has rained since. As for next steps, the Managing Agent wishes to have another look at our flat - no problem I said.

Then there is the matter of putting right the downstairs neighbour's ceiling. Thank you Richlist for pointing out that we would not be liable unless we've been negligent. I guess the freeholder's building insurance would pay (and any increased premiums charged to us leaseholders via service charges no doubt.... )

My bet is still for a hairline crack or similar on a pipe somewhere causing a slow leak.... Our bathroom is fully tiled around the bath so there should not be any water getting through that way.

I will post an update if/when the mystery is resolved.

[Richlist]

Then there is the matter of putting right the downstairs neighbour's ceiling. Thank you Richlist for pointing out that we would not be liable unless we've been negligent. I guess the freeholder's building insurance would pay (and any increased premiums charged to us leaseholders via service charges no doubt.... )

Now I know that your property is LEASEHOLD there is another important twist to how this should be handled......read on.

Many freeholders or managing agents keep the buildings insurance premiums low by agreeing that any claims will have a higher excess. Often for water leaks the excess is perhaps £500 sometimes even more. But, if your lease says that the freeholder or the managing agents are responsible for arranging buildings insurance and you will pay the premium through your service charges then any any excess paid by a leaseholder for an insurance claim.....should be reimbursed by the freeholder or managing agents from the service charge account.