blitz10 Posted March 27, 2012 Report Share Posted March 27, 2012 Hi, Quick background. My husband & myself couldn't sell our home before we moved to our new house so we deceided to rent it out. Hubby wanted to rent privately to his friend & girlfriend which we did on a 6 monthly basis (short hold assured tncy). Tenancy was always in the g/friends name as he didn't want to be on anything legal which was fine by us. They have split up, got back together, split up etc.. She has changed the locks on him before & told us when she gave us a new key,they both ripped out plants when asked to keep the garden tidy & replaced with pansies, agreed with a neighbour to take down a tree/bush type thing & taken down a dividing fence from her to another neighbour so they could pop in on one another easily. Anyway, although this is annoying we've let it go coz it wasn't really major things to us but the problem we now have has really been more recent. Before xmas we indicated that come the spring we were going to ask seek advice from agents with regards to either selling the house or having it valued for rent & letting the agents deal with the rental side of it. At this point the woman (tenant) indicated that they were together again & would like to buy the house from us if we chose to sell. Jan 1st a new rental agreement was signed (same as before 6 month term) & again my hubby reminded them we might be doing something else with the house come the end of this term (end June). I should mention mid dec she indicated she thought there was a damp problem in the upstairs room but said she didn't want anyone round till after xmas, when the new contract was signed hubby had a look & said it was condensation (as our builder has previously stated when replacing the fascia boards & putting vents in the roof & an extractor in the bathroom). So mid Jan I spoke with her & she asked if she could decorate the living/dining rooms etc as it was looking tired. I agreed she could if she wanted but told her specifically not to spend lots as we didn't know if we were keeping the house at which point i was told her step dad or someone had sealed the damp??? (condensation) upstairs & she'd decorated, so again said we may sell etc.. & that was the end. 2 weeks ago I went to check condition of the property & was very dissapointed it just looks in such a state, even taking into account general wear & tear. It was on this basis that we deceided to sell the house when the tenancy ends as we don't want to do the work (ie new kitchen, garden & decoration) that I would see make it re-letable, also sick of the hassel. I informed the tenant as soon as the decission was made & learnt that she was now not able to buy as her & the partner had spilt again therefore she is now on HB & can't get a mortgage. But we are still going to try to sell so I told tenant come end of June she would need to move. I think we've been overly reasonable in all this said she could stay right till the end, go now if she wanted, leave at any point in the tenancy if she found somewhere, she asked for her section 21so she could take it to the council & I served it with the end date 3rd July. she has since found somewhere & informed me last week she needed a ref (which I did) & ever since I've had problems. She now wants us to pay for a cooker she installed & to 'reach an agreement' about the £500 she has spent decorating 6 weeks ago. to be honest I can't see where she's spent £50 let alone £500 & made it clear all along we might not re-let come June. Anyone know where I stand specifically with regards to the decoration? my solicior tells me to send her on her way with nothing Thanks , Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carryon Regardless Posted March 27, 2012 Report Share Posted March 27, 2012 Nowt wrong with what the Solicitor advises. I assume there was no discussion / negotiation regarding the cost of decoration so this was done solely for their/ her own purposes. If there was a cooker in place at the start there should be at the end, but it could be in a fair wear and tear condition even if new at the start. In practice this means knackered as it's too difficult to say what is fair wear and tear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melboy Posted March 28, 2012 Report Share Posted March 28, 2012 Your last sentence is correct re- your solicitor. Follow that excellent advice to it's conclusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mortitia Posted March 28, 2012 Report Share Posted March 28, 2012 Even if you had let to strangers you could have had the same result. I take it Section 21 was issued in the correct manner? Unfortunately local authorities don't just re-home someone because a S21 has been served. If she goes at the end of June be very thankful - she may stay on until you get a court order. Do not give in to cooker - you are in charge not tenant and expect place to be in a mess. Mortitia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snorkerz Posted March 29, 2012 Report Share Posted March 29, 2012 I agree with the advice regarding the decoration & cooker, with a lttle warning. If your tenants new property falls through (possibly because she couldn't scrounge £500 off you for a new deposit) your tenant could be in your place until the end of August, even September. If she feels suitably wound up due to your (legitimate) lack of co-operation she may decide she is going to 'save' her housing benefit money and not pay rent to you. Sure, once she is 8 weeks behind you can get the HB paid direct (bypassing tenant) but you will have one heck of a battle to get that missing rent out of her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blitz10 Posted March 29, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2012 Thanks for the advice folks. Tenant has actually picked up the keys for her new place and is moving on Sunday but is refusing to take my calls or reply to texts. It's so frustrating all I want her to do is tell me what she is doing with the bloody keys! I have also offered her £165 (which is almost 2 weeks rent) as a good will gesture (& to just get rid of her, plus my hubby did say he would pay 1/2 for the cooker when she moved tho that would be £50) but she has still not responded, I think perhaps I'm being overly reasonable & taken for a mug! But we live in the same village, same schools, nurseries etc so just trying to avoid bad feeling tho it's obviously not working. I did serve the Section 21 in the correct manner but it doesn't expire till the beginning of July (tho she is moving on the 1st April), she hasn't given me a months notice (or given it in writing) which is fine by me but what happens if she refuses to hand back the keys even tho she is living elsewhere, can I just change the locks if she's moved without giving formal notice? Is it classed as doing a flit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richlist Posted March 29, 2012 Report Share Posted March 29, 2012 If she hasn't surrendered the tenancy and hasn't returned the keys and isn't communicating with you then she is STILL your tenant, responsible for the property and liable to pay rent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blitz10 Posted March 30, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2012 If she hasn't surrendered the tenancy and hasn't returned the keys and isn't communicating with you then she is STILL your tenant, responsible for the property and liable to pay rent. Is that the case even if she has moved into another home? If she leaves as planned on Sunday & posts the keys through the door or returns them is that deemed enough that she has surrendered the property. last communication was that was she was quitting the property on Sun to return keys on Tues if that goes as planned is the tenancy legally ended? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snorkerz Posted March 30, 2012 Report Share Posted March 30, 2012 Is that the case even if she has moved into another home? If she leaves as planned on Sunday & posts the keys through the door or returns them is that deemed enough that she has surrendered the property. last communication was that was she was quitting the property on Sun to return keys on Tues if that goes as planned is the tenancy legally ended? Yes, the tenancy only ends when you get a court possession order or your tenant surrenders the property. No where does it say your tenant can't have 2 homes (ask your MP!). As she has not gone yet, I would put a letter through the letterbox explaining that she remains legally responsible for rent until she formally surrenders the tenancy. Get a witness to see you putting it through the door. Maybe even pop round tommorrow in the hope of catching them packing with a deed of surrender ready for them to sign. EDIT: Having re-read your last post. If you have it in writing that she is leaving Sunday AND the keys are returned, then that will amount to a surrender. If it is just the keys, then that may be what is called an implied surrender, but if you take it as a surrender, and the tenant kicks up a fuss for any reason, then only a judge can decide if the tenants actions amounted to a surrender in the circumstances. So be careful, you don't want the hassle and expense of a court claim against you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mortitia Posted March 30, 2012 Report Share Posted March 30, 2012 Since it is unlikely that you will get any more rent out of here I would not offer her cash but get locksmith in as soon as you know she has gone and use your money wisely on that. You are going to have to change locks anyway - so watch carefully from a distance. Stop texting and voicemail - that could be used against you as harassment. I find women far more vindictive than men in this situation. Mortitia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snorkerz Posted March 30, 2012 Report Share Posted March 30, 2012 Mortitia, why do you think this would not be illegal eviction? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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