Grampa Posted January 9, 2012 Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 This maybe a question for LAW but others may have have some thoughts. We all know after serviing a section 8 with ground 8,10,11 (rent arrears) you have to wait 14 days before appling for a court hearing but with ground 14 you can apply straight away. So even if you had a weak case for ground 14 but also added 8,10 &11 how would the judges view/judge the case/hearing? Would the judges just disregard the g14 element of the case (if too weak) and still make judgement rule on g 8,10,11 even though you have shaved 2 weeks off the process. Just a thought Note: Mandatory grounds on which court must order possession Ground 8 The tenant owed at least 2 months rent if the tenancy is on a monthly basis or 8 weeks rent if its is on a weekly basis, both when the landlord gave notice seeking possession and at the date of the court hearing. Discretionary grounds on which the court may order possession Ground 10 The tenant was behind with his or her rent both when the landlord served notice seeking possession and when he or she began court proceedings. Ground 11 Even if the tenant was not behind with his or her rent when the landlord started possession proceedings, the tenant has been persistently late in paying the rent. Ground 14 The tenant, or someone living in or visiting the residential investment property: - has caused, or is likely to cause, a nuisance or annoyance to someone living in or visiting the locality; or - has been convicted of using the property, or allowing it to be used, for immoral or illegal purposes, or an arrest able offence committed in the investment property or in the locality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mortitia Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 I am not legally trained but ground 14 does seem very ambiguous. In my humble opinion some judges I have come across would penalise the LL for bringing a case in this manner. Until recently I have always had 'unreasonable and bad tempered' judges at hearings. I don't think my case has made them like it but they just arrive in that mode. Sorry that has turned into a rant on the courts! Mortitia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LLAW96 Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 Where you are relying on a discretionary ground the court has a general statutory power to dispense with the need for notice where it is "just and equitable to do so". This is useful to know where an issue arises at court in relation to the validity of a notice seeking possession. Having said this save for ground 14 I would always issue and serve the appropriate notice before issuing a claim. Where you are relying on madatory ground 8 the court cannot dispense with need for a s.8 notice to be served. It is useful to know where a tenant is either abusive, makes threats or damages the property it is possible to make an application to abridge the time for the return date from the minumum of 28 days to the earliest date the court can manage. I have had return dates of 7 days in cases where tenants have made threats/damaged property. If you find yourself in this position when you issue your claim prepare an application n.244 with a supporting statement setting out your position, when you lodge your claim (there may be a fee for your application, but some courts are happy with just the issue fee) tell the counter clerk you would like to go before a judge under a certificate of urgency. You will be given a certificate of urgency to complete and taken to see the judge. Tell the judge that you are not seeking an order for possession at this stage but an early date for the case to be heard because of threats/abuse/damage to property. If the judge is convinced the court will set a date for you usually within 14 days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grampa Posted January 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 Thanks for that LAW, very useful. But in your view how do you think a judge would view a case (the rent arrears part) if a s8, served g 8,10,11 +14 where the g14 element is weak and only added so not having to wait the 14 days before appling for a court hearing because the g14 allows you to apply straight away (after s8 served). If that makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firera Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 Fire Risk Assessments Limited specialise in helping businesses of all kinds and in all types of premises to ensure you are meeting the current legislation. Our unique blend of experience is tailored to provide an 'integrated total fire safety management service' in accordance with the regulations under the Regulatory Reform (Fire Safety) Order 2005. The Order states that the Responsible Person' (which if you are reading this, presume that is you) has to undertake aFire Risk Assessment, and if your organisation employs five or more people, you have to record the findings of your fire risk assessment. A Responsible Person is defined by the legislation as nearly always being the employer, where there is one, though it can include other individuals too. If you share a building with other organisations, the responsibility may be shared among several people. If you have responsibility for the other people in your organisation, it is safe to assume you will be the Responsible Person, even if others are too Over 70% of businesses involved in major fires either don't reopen or fail within three years. A fire is clearly a very difficult thing to recover from and something your business will definitely be a lot healthier without. We all have to carry out a Fire Risk Assessment because of the law, but it is actually just giving a structure to what we should all be doing anyway in the best interests of our businesses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melboy Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 Fire Risk Assessments Limited specialise in helping businesses of all kinds and in all types of premises to ensure you are meeting the current legislation. Our unique blend of experience is tailored to provide an 'integrated total fire safety management service' in accordance with the regulations under the Regulatory Reform (Fire Safety) Order 2005. The Order states that the Responsible Person' (which if you are reading this, presume that is you) has to undertake aFire Risk Assessment, and if your organisation employs five or more people, you have to record the findings of your fire risk assessment. A Responsible Person is defined by the legislation as nearly always being the employer, where there is one, though it can include other individuals too. If you share a building with other organisations, the responsibility may be shared among several people. If you have responsibility for the other people in your organisation, it is safe to assume you will be the Responsible Person, even if others are too Over 70% of businesses involved in major fires either don't reopen or fail within three years. A fire is clearly a very difficult thing to recover from and something your business will definitely be a lot healthier without. We all have to carry out a Fire Risk Assessment because of the law, but it is actually just giving a structure to what we should all be doing anyway in the best interests of our businesses. Your multi spam postings Firera have been reported to the moderator so please do us all a favour and s*d off! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carryon Regardless Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 Well said that man, even if diplomatically put. Another git. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melboy Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 Well said that man, even if diplomatically put. Another git. Diplomacy can only go so far in a reasoned discussion before the truth needs to be told COR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LLAW96 Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 Ground 14 will either be a matter of fact ie you have a certificate of conviction, or by substantive witness evidence setting out the alleged acts of nuisance. You would not be penalised in relation to the merits of the ground, in any event it is a discretionary ground and the judge has the last say regardless of the merits of the case. In the case you describe you would have to convince the judge that it would be just and equitable to dispense with notice in relation to grounds 10/11/13, ground 8 could not be used. Alternatively you could issue a further claim after your notice had expired and ask for the two matters to be consolidated or at a push ask the judge for permission to amend your claim to include the additional grounds after the notice had expired. Where you are seeking to use ground 14 it is almost certain that you could apply to abridge the hearing date because the tenants are likely to be causing damage or are being abusive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest caravanj Posted January 12, 2012 Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 Your multi spam postings Firera have been reported to the moderator so please do us all a favour and s*d off! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grampa Posted January 12, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 Many thanks for that Law just the info I needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.