Lodgers - unreasonable expectations? Advice pls

[julieparnell]

I am a landlady with 2 flat-mates.

In my orignal ad I did say that all lodgers are responsible for helping with household chores.

One of my lodgers is very clean, tidy and respectful and offers help (DIY jobs) so I cant expect him to help with cleaning I suppose.

The other one has been with me for over a year now and all he has done in that time is helped me with trimming back my hedge once

and he has hoovered about 3 times! I even do his washing for him, as a favour (not really part of the deal).

I want to say something but not sure how to say it without causing offence.

Am I expecting too much?

They have use of all the house and the gardens..

[Melboy]

Only you can really answer your own question because it will be you who has to deal with the problem however for what it's worth I would recommend to you that you have a polite conversation with your lodger and explain that you require more assistance in whatever it is you want your lodger to do helping around the house and if necessary draw up a list of the jobs you expect him/her to carry out.

Mel.

[julieparnell]

Mel,

Thank you for your reply, but i just want to know what other people think?

A friend of mine thinks that lodgers shouldnt have to help with cleaning and other chores.

But I think they should, afterall they would have to do it if they had their own place.

Julie

Only you can really answer your own question because it will be you who has to deal with the problem however for what it's worth I would recommend to you that you have a polite conversation with your lodger and explain that you require more assistance in whatever it is you want your lodger to do helping around the house and if necessary draw up a list of the jobs you expect him/her to carry out.

Mel.

[Richlist]

What do I think ?

Well I'm somebody who has never had a lodger.....I let properties on AST's.....but I have a number of friends who do have/ had lodgers.

1. It really depends on the terms agreed/ market standards as to what you can expect from a lodger. Price is also a factor as is the type of property and the type of lodger.

2. I think its unrealistic under any circumstances to expect a lodger to carry out DIY, cleaning / hoovering, putting out rubbush or any other domestic chore (other than making their own bed). I'm of the belief that your room price should include these things.

3. You should not provide services such as meals or washing, free of charge unless your agreement specifically says you should.

4. You need to set strict demarcation lines as to who does what. Draw up a list and make sure you and your lodgers stick to it.

5. You need to assess your position. Are you looking for paying lodgers to provide you with an income....ie a business arrangement OR are you looking for company/ someone to fill your spare rooms.

[julieparnell]

I dont expect lodgers to carry out DIY...he just does it.

He sees a loose screw - he tightens it.

I dont think its unreaonable to expect peope to put the bins out or hoover and dust their own rooms.

My query is over cleaning and sharing the chores around the rest of the house.

For example they fill up the dishwasher, so why shouldn't they empty it?!

What do I think ?

Well I'm somebody who has never had a lodger.....I let properties on AST's.....but I have a number of friends who do have/ had lodgers.

1. It really depends on the terms agreed/ market standards as to what you can expect from a lodger. Price is also a factor as is the type of property and the type of lodger.

2. I think its unrealistic under any circumstances to expect a lodger to carry out DIY, cleaning / hoovering, putting out rubbush or any other domestic chore (other than making their own bed). I'm of the belief that your room price should include these things.

3. You should not provide services such as meals or washing, free of charge unless your agreement specifically says you should.

4. You need to set strict demarcation lines as to who does what. Draw up a list and make sure you and your lodgers stick to it.

5. You need to assess your position. Are you looking for paying lodgers to provide you with an income....ie a business arrangement OR are you looking for company/ someone to fill your spare rooms.

[Richlist]

OK, we know what you think.

You have asked what others think and I've given you my views.

Good luck.

[julieparnell]

Ok thank you for your feedback :-)

OK, we know what you think.

You have asked what others think and I've given you my views.

Good luck.

[Carryon Regardless]

It depends on the understanding between the 2 of you.

That should have come from the discussion prior to accepting the lodger, and really is ultimately your choice. I wish as LL I could be so lucky as to be able to dictate the terms.

A school leaver gets a job and pays mummy some of his wages. She continues to cook, clean, iron. He's a lodger. Yours has maybe never grown up from this.

If you are willing increase your rates to pay yourself for being mummy.

If you can't reach agreement saying goodbye is easy.

Your house (home), your choice.

[julieparnell]

I did make it clear from day one - it even says it on the orignal ad -

"all occupants are responsible for sharing the chores".

I am saying goodbye to one now....just given him a months notice.

[Lolainuk]

Hi Julie,

Yes, Cleaning is a difficult thing to talk about...

I think if you live in your house with all your family and just have one lodger, ok he should participate but so does the rest of your family.

Then, if it's just you alone + 2 other lodgers, I think sharing the cleaning chores is normal. They use the house as much as you do, and they bring dirt just as much as you do. You are the landlord, ok, but that doesn't mean you're the maid.

I'd say to the one who helps you with DYI that it's very nice of him, but you'd appreciate more a hand on the cleaning side.

And for the dirty one... I just got rid of my lodger from hell. I don't think there is anything to do with this kind of people, they just don't value 'Cleanliness' and 'Respect' for other people's properties.

In my opinion, I understand where you come from, and I don't think it's unreasonable.

If you don't want to say anything, you can maybe starting to talk about the cost of a maid and sharing that between the people in the house = increasing the rent!

Hope that helps

Lola

[julieparnell]

Hi Lola

Thank you for your response! Helped an awful lot!

You got to the point and can see my point of view!

I always felt that that was the case...I am not the maid and I am not the only one making things dirty.

If I shared a house, I would do my fair share.

However, many lodgers seem to treat it like a holiday camp.

I have given the lazy one his notice now...

Couldnt be bothered to discuss is with him any-more.

I think I will have to make it very clear what I expect, to the next one.

Then there's no grey areas.

Many thanks for your thoughts on the matter.

Julie

Hi Julie,

Yes, Cleaning is a difficult thing to talk about...

I think if you live in your house with all your family and just have one lodger, ok he should participate but so does the rest of your family.

Then, if it's just you alone + 2 other lodgers, I think sharing the cleaning chores is normal. They use the house as much as you do, and they bring dirt just as much as you do. You are the landlord, ok, but that doesn't mean you're the maid.

I'd say to the one who helps you with DYI that it's very nice of him, but you'd appreciate more a hand on the cleaning side.

And for the dirty one... I just got rid of my lodger from hell. I don't think there is anything to do with this kind of people, they just don't value 'Cleanliness' and 'Respect' for other people's properties.

In my opinion, I understand where you come from, and I don't think it's unreasonable.

If you don't want to say anything, you can maybe starting to talk about the cost of a maid and sharing that between the people in the house = increasing the rent!

Hope that helps

Lola

[Melboy]

I have given the lazy one his notice now...

Couldnt be bothered to discuss this with him any-more.

There.....you have taking positive and decisive action which was the correct thing to do all along.

Mel.

[julieparnell]

yes and it feels like a relief to be honest!

I have given the lazy one his notice now...

Couldnt be bothered to discuss this with him any-more.

There.....you have taking positive and decisive action which was the correct thing to do all along.

Mel.

[Caffiend]

I'm not sure I entirely agree with Richlist - I would say that what you put in a lodger agreement in terms of 'house rules' relating to sharing space/chores is more or less up to you, but the room rate should reflect your expectations. (Although he is of course right in saying that DIY/garden is absolutely LL responsibility - if lodger wants to help, that's a bonus, but is certainly not expected and lodger's insistence on helping with repainting my kitchen recently was duly rewarded with Chinese [grin].)

You asked what people think - well, I am a residential LL with just the one lodger at a time. I think your big issue here was letting it lie too long - if you don't raise 'behaviour' issues (noise, cleaning, whatever) pretty darn fast and carry on sharing with that lodger for a while, it's difficult to move the goalposts, whatever it said in the original agreement. It's amazing how apparently petty things can REALLY get on your nerves if the 'habit'/whatever drags on for a while.

The way I look at taking in lodgers: it may be my house, but it's also the lodger's home while they live there, so I have to compromise a little too. As I share the house, it's only polite to tidy/clean up after myself on a day-to-day basis- so I do, and therefore consider it reasonable to expect the lodger to do the same. I.e. wipe their feet/outdoor shoes off, indoor shoes on. Leave the kitchen usable after they've cooked - clean up spillages/wipe down surfaces, food not left out in the open, washing up 'tidy' by sink. Shove some bleach down the loo if needed after they've used it. Rinse soap scum/hair out of the shower/bath after use. Etc. Otherwise I consider it my responsibility to do what I call the "proper housework" - hoover/clean shared areas weekly and buy all cleaning materials - after all, if I didn't have a lodger, I'd have to do that anyway! I always discuss/agree these principles with any potential lodger who even comes and looks at the room - if they don't seem to 'buy in', then bye bye! (I won't call you ...) - so yes, you need to make your expectations very clear, but need to 'give' a little as well - after all, whatever your reasons for having a lodger, they are paying you (if they aren't, then why are they still there?).

I think I'm a pretty laid back landlady - IMO life is just too damn short to get petty about "my washing up/your washing up"; "your turn to buy milk/loo roll/whatever else we've agreed to share for convenience" - as long as it's not just one of us doing/buying ALL the time, it seems to work out just fine, never had any complaints either way - and this is going on experience with 4 very different lodgers over the last few years.

[Richlist]

I'm not sure I entirely agree with Richlist -

Thats OK. I dont mind if people disagree provided they understand the point I'm making.

For example......

* Sherlock Homes was a lodger......albeit a fictional character. Could you imagine him cleaning his room, sweeping up or really doing any domestic chores ?

* I have friends who have let a room in their own house to professional engineers working on contract. They travel down on Sunday evening from the midlands and leave to return home most weekends on a Friday. They don't expect anything except a room with a TV, a clean bed, the ability to make themselves some breakfast and certainly would have no intention of doing ANY domestic chores.

Lodgers come in all shapes and sizes........and types.

[julieparnell]

Richlist, I can see your point of view.

If they are working and go home at weekends, then fair enough.

But I have lodgers that have made this their home...they dont just work and sleep.

Sherlock homes - well no i could not imagine him cleaning and hoovering! LOL!

But then he would probably be staying in something a lot posher than i am offering!

Caffiend, you say you wouldnt expect them to help with cleaning, because you'd have to do it any-way.

But i know that I have to clean more often with lodgers here, than when i was on my own.

If I didnt live in, then what would they do (presuming I hadnt employed a cleaner)?

[Caffiend]

Caffiend, you say you wouldnt expect them to help with cleaning, because you'd have to do it any-way.

No, what I said is that I don't expect them to help with 'chores' which I would define as stuff that you do on a regular basis - like hoovering, cleaning bath/sink/kitchen/floors on a regular basis whether it looks like it needs it or not. I did say that I expect them to tidy/clean up after themselves.I am not their surrogate parent or their maid.

But i know that I have to clean more often with lodgers here, than when i was on my own.

In which case, either

a - your lodger(s) are not cleaning up after themselves

or

b - without seeing your house or knowing you, no offence meant - but perhaps your standards are too high? One person can always 'live cleaner' than two or more. Way I see it, at the end of the day lodgers are paying me to live there and I'd not be able to keep my house without them (common sob story: redundancy, got another job but much lower salary). You have to expect to make some compromises if you're sharing your living space, whoever you're sharing with (lodger, lover, kids, other relatives). You just have to work out for yourself what you are and are not willing to put up with.

If I was living on my own, I'd probably hoover much less frequently than weekly (hate it, my least favourite chore) - so yeah, to be fair, I probably do more chores with lodger in the house and in the case of hoovering, it's just as well! However, I refuse to drive myself mad with trying to keep the house absolutely pristine 100% of the time when there are people LIVING in it and using it. My house is not a candidate for Life of Grime, honest! - but it is hygienic, and that's good enough. I would quickly Have Words if I felt that my lodger(s) were leaving mess around for too long before cleaning up after themselves or were creating unreasonable amounts of extra work for me.

Perhaps one of the non-residential LLs can help with your other question - you wanted opinions from a live in landlord, you got mine and as free advice is only worth what you paid for it, do what you like - but I suspect I'm a much less stressed LL than you sound right now ...

[julieparnell]

I did understand what you meant..."No, what I said is that I don't expect them to help with 'chores' which I would define as stuff that you do on a regular basis"

Now you sound uptight!!! I'm not.uptight or stressed....i was only curious to know what other live-in LL's thought.

All i wanted was other peoples opnion..not an arguement or criticism.

I actually agreed with everything you said, except the regular cleaning thing.

No, what I said is that I don't expect them to help with 'chores' which I would define as stuff that you do on a regular basis - like hoovering, cleaning bath/sink/kitchen/floors on a regular basis whether it looks like it needs it or not. I d say that I expect them to tidy/clean up after themselves.I am not their surrogate parent or their maid.

In which case, either

a - your lodger(s) are not cleaning up after themselves

or

b - without seeing your house or knowing you, no offence meant - but perhaps your standards are too high? One person can always 'live cleaner' than two or more. Way I see it, at the end of the day lodgers are paying me to live there and I'd not be able to keep my house without them (common sob story: redundancy, got another job but much lower salary). You have to expect to make some compromises if you're sharing your living space, whoever you're sharing with (lodger, lover, kids, other relatives). You just have to work out for yourself what you are and are not willing to put up with.

If I was living on my own, I'd probably hoover much less frequently than weekly (hate it, my least favourite chore) - so yeah, to be fair, I probably do more chores with lodger in the house and in the case of hoovering, it's just as well! However, I refuse to drive myself mad with trying to keep the house absolutely pristine 100% of the time when there are people LIVING in it and using it. My house is not a candidate for Life of Grime, honest! - but it is hygienic, and that's good enough. I would quickly Have Words if I felt that my lodger(s) were leaving mess around for too long before cleaning up after themselves or were creating unreasonable amounts of extra work for me.

Perhaps one of the non-residential LLs can help with your other question - you wanted opinions from a live in landlord, you got mine and as free advice is only worth what you paid for it, do what you like - but I suspect I'm a much less stressed LL than you sound right now ...

[Lolainuk]

You know what... I am considering hiring a maid... That would be around £75 a month, so I increased the rent of £25 (we're 3) and then everyone is happy. and no more house chores...

I know I would spend myself 25£ extra a month, but shared with other it is not that much of a rip off.

and I'm thinking about the benefit for everyone, no more argument of fighting over chores...

I will let you know if I try and if it improve the quality of life in the house.

:-)

[Caffiend]

Good idea!

Just one thing you might want to consider - presumably 'rent to include cleaning' will be in the lodger agreement, so if your cleaner leaves and you can't get another one, then either

a - you'll either have to reduce the rent and go back to sharing chores (until you can get another cleaner)

or

b - do all the cleaning yourself until you can get someone else in - but hey, at least you're getting 50 quid extra a month for it, when you weren't before - and from what you said in your first posts about lodgers not pulling their weight, I'd probably pick this option as least stressful!

Personally, I'll stick with the "this isn't a hotel, clean up after yourself and I'll do the rest" philosophy - if a potential lodger isn't happy with that, the Travelodge is 2 miles that way >>> (and considerably more expensive than what I'm charging ...)