So...first tenant for our first BTL.

[chickpea]

After just over a week on the agent's books and several viewings, we seem to have a tenant for our 2 bed semi.

She's a woman going through divorce, keen to leave her present property (presumably the marital home) - 18 year old son who will be living in the property with her, and a 21 year old son who's away in the Navy but will be staying occasionally.

Credit checks went through today, all ok.

I've given a provisional moving in date of the end of next week, as we have a bit of painting to do and 2 new floor coverings to have fitted.

When we bought the house, I had the idea that it would be a couple, late 20's/early 30's who took it on. Is there any reason why I should be feeling slightly uneasy about the tenants we now find ourselves with?

Do I sound mad if I say that visions of the ex-husband smashing in the front door/18 year old trashing the place etc....??!!.

We have an agent managing the let, but does that stop us asserting our own wants, eg doing a 3 monthly check on the property to head off any potential problems, requesting that the 18 year old doesn't paint his bedroom black or drill holes in the walls - exactly what constitutes reasonable expectations as to what tenants can/can't do to the property?

[Richlist]

Is there any reason why I should be feeling slightly uneasy about the tenants we now find ourselves with?

Yes there is.

Surely you don't really 'find yourselves' with this tenant......you do have choice. Presumably you have drawn up a tenant specification and are not just accepting the first person who says they want to rent the property ?

Do I sound mad if I say that visions of the ex-husband smashing in the front door/18 year old trashing the place etc....??!!.

No not at all.

Personally I wouldn't let to anyone with an 18 year old son.....complete recipe for disaster.

We have an agent managing the let, but does that stop us asserting our own wants, eg doing a 3 monthly check on the property to head off any potential problems, requesting that the 18 year old doesn't paint his bedroom black or drill holes in the walls - exactly what constitutes reasonable expectations as to what tenants can/can't do to the property?

You can set as many rules as you like but 18 year old's have a tendency to ignore most of them

[chickpea]

Is there any reason why I should be feeling slightly uneasy about the tenants we now find ourselves with?

Yes there is.

Surely you don't really 'find yourselves' with this tenant......you do have choice. Presumably you have drawn up a tenant specification and are not just accepting the first person who says they want to rent the property ?

Do I sound mad if I say that visions of the ex-husband smashing in the front door/18 year old trashing the place etc....??!!.

No not at all.

Personally I wouldn't let to anyone with an 18 year old son.....complete recipe for disaster.

We have an agent managing the let, but does that stop us asserting our own wants, eg doing a 3 monthly check on the property to head off any potential problems, requesting that the 18 year old doesn't paint his bedroom black or drill holes in the walls - exactly what constitutes reasonable expectations as to what tenants can/can't do to the property?

You can set as many rules as you like but 18 year old's have a tendency to ignore most of them

This is how it's gone, Richlist -

We signed up to the agents, filled in their form, answering the usual questions - no DSS, no smokers, no pets.

We've had 5 viewings, with 2 more originally booked for yesterday.

Agent rang first thing yesterday to say that one of the viewers had put in a credit check request - and as such, all other viewings were frozen. Credit checks came back ok, so we were asked for a moving in date.

I'm not sure how much more specific we can be - I mean, what constitutes the perfect tenant on paper? No under 25's/ no-one with children between the ages of 0 and 25/ no-one who has friends between those ages/no-one who has friends who may come to the house at all/no-one who works in a pub....where do you draw the line?

I really want to believe that what's described on here is worse-case scenarios - I have plenty of friends who rent/have rented and they are all nice, decent people. Is there absolutely no chance that these are the sort of tenants we'll get?

[Richlist]

You have to realise the agent is working for you not vice versa and that you are paying their bill so, you call the tune.

You should list your criteria, ensure the agent follows your wishes and make sure the agent understands that the final decision on tenants is yours not theirs. You can veto anyone they choose. They will want to let to anyone......the quicker they let, the quicker they get paid.

I'm not sure how much more specific we can be - I mean, what constitutes the perfect tenant on paper?

You can be as specific as you wish.....its your property.

No under 25's/ no-one with children between the ages of 0 and 25/ no-one who has friends between those ages/no-one who has friends who may come to the house at all/no-one who works in a pub....where do you draw the line?

You draw the line at a position that suits you, that allows you to sleep at night and that minimises your risks of something going wrong. My preferences may not be yours but they have worked for me, virtually without exception over the past 10+ years.

Choosing your tenants is the single most important decision you will make when letting a property and even comes before choosing a suitable agent.

In my opinion every single applicant is different......they all have positives and negatives. The secret to sucessfull letting is to choose wisely.

Good luck.

[Jas@FiveTrees]

If it helps, we manage properties in London for some landlords who are in South Africa. They have put in a quarterly check into the contracts of their flats which we do on their behalf and then we report back.

My point being, if you want it in the contract and its going to give you peace of mind, then insist on it. If and when you feel more comfortable with the tenants (and upon contract renewal) you could always remove it.

Hope this helps

[chickpea]

Thanks for the replies.

My husband met with the agents yesterday and expressed our concern that we hadn't been offered a choice over which tenants we have. They answered that they find the fairest system is to offer a "first past the post" situation - but that we were under no obligation to agree to the tenants offered, even after crdit checks had been paid for and made.

As a matter of course, they always inspect a new tenancy after 2 months, to head off any potential problems and they are happy to do a quarterly inspection thereafter.

We have arranged to meet the tenant in question this evening - by all accounts, she's very personable so hopefully, meeting her will put our minds at some kind of rest.

I'll let you know how it all goes.

[Richlist]

My husband met with the agents yesterday and expressed our concern that we hadn't been offered a choice over which tenants we have. They answered that they find the fairest system is to offer a "first past the post" situation - but that we were under no obligation to agree to the tenants offered, even after crdit checks had been paid for and made.

Thats the most ridiculous excuse I've heard from an agent

In my humble opinion a 'first past the post' is NOT the fairest system for the person who is paying the bill... YOU. It may be the fairest for the potential tenant, it may be the most economically viable for the agent but it IS NOT doing you any favours.

Let me tell you how I operate with my agents.

I draw up a list of wants and more specifically what I don't want. Any applicants at the agents are then filtered by them. Anyone that passes that filter is asked a few basic questions to determine if they will pass credit checks, rent guarantee insurance, references etc. They then view the property with me. The agents NEVER act without calling me first to find out if i'm in agreement with the letting.

Good luck with your meeting.

[Melboy]

My husband met with the agents yesterday and expressed our concern that we hadn't been offered a choice over which tenants we have. They answered that they find the fairest system is to offer a "first past the post" situation - but that we were under no obligation to agree to the tenants offeredAs a matter of course.

That's a new one on me as well. Why would they want to run credit checks etc. etc. and then give you the opportunity to refuse their 'first past the post' tenant application?

It's the tenant who is paying the money for credit checks not the LA so the refused tenant is going to be well choked off to be told that the landlord has decided not to go with them AFTER they have shelled out money.

Sorry Tracy that is rubbish from your LA.

I agree with Richlist's comments.

Mel.

[chickpea]

I wasn't impressed either, especially as they put a hold on 2 other viewings that were already booked in for the beginning of the week. I have now made it very clear that that is NOT how I want my lettings run - I want feedback from anyone who has said they are interested in renting the property after viewing it, so that I can decide who I'd consider letting to.

We met the tenant today and she seems very pleasant - HOWEVER, the agents haven't given her any idea of what is expected from a tenant, eg I had to explain that if she chose to hang pictures and made holes in the wall doing so, she'd have to make good before she moved out etc. I'm not sure whether she even knows she's responsible for paying council tax while she's there,or what notice she needs to give - and she didn't know anything about 3 monthly inspections (or any inspections, actually)

I still have personal concerns - her 18 year old is about to loose his apprenticeship, due to the company losing funding, so he will be out of work soon after they move in.

The house has 2 bedrooms, with a loft conversion which is deemed only suitable for storage. She has a 21 year old son who is a sub mariner and will need to stay "on the odd occasion, for the weekend, not months at a time". She stated that the loft room will be ideal, but I had to explain that it had not been passed by building regs with regards to fire etc, so she would have to take that into account. I'm not even sure what our position would be if anything happened - does anyone know?

We are going to have to go back to the agent and make clear that the tenant needs to be made aware of her responsibilities and contract details..at the moment, it feels like the blind (us) leading the blind (her).

[Richlist]

It not unusual for first time tenants to be unaware of how renting works, any restrictions or their responsibilities.

Never assume that any agent is going to inform a new tenant and even if they did, there is often so much information that people won't always retain it anyway.

[Melboy]

My only suprise about this saga Tracy is that you have not declined this person and moved on to the next suitable applicant. Never get emotionally involved with any tenant.

I know I would have by now.

The use of the loft bedroom is a strict no-no for many reasons and from what you are saying it has crossed the mind of this prospective tenancy to make full use of it.

Mel.

[chickpea]

To be quite honest, I'm beginning to think the whole letitng thing was a bad idea. I thought I'd done as much research as possible, picked an ideal property (which it is) and knew what we were getting into.

Ha! How wrong I was!

I just don't know how to play this. This tenant was the only person seemingly to want the house, despite a flurry of interest, 4 actual viewings and 2 others booked in. I asked the agent for feedback on the 4 viewings, but they headed it off by setting wheels in motion with this tenant.

I am left wondering if we'd be left with an empty house if we don't take her (which I don't understand, as the house is immaculate in an area that has high demand for rental).

The other problem I have is not getting emotionally involved - if I wasn't playing though all the possible nightmare scenarios in my head of what could happen (ie wasn't reacting emotionally), I'd be taking her on without a second thought. I just can't get to grips with how I choose the ideal tenant without wanting to know about their lifestyle (eg are they party-animals etc), which is an emotional reaction of sorts.

Lastly, the BTL is obviously involving my husband, who is very much more easy-going than me and is having trouble seeing any problems with this situation.

Think I'll talk to the agents again..

Thanks for being so honest with me, guys.

[chickpea]

Done it - binned her.

Agent sounded hacked off, especially after we added no children and no dogs to our wish list BUT they can lump it - it's our £240, not theirs.

Onwards and upwards, eh?

[Melboy]

Done it - binned her.

Onwards and upwards, eh?

Yep! Back in control Tracy which is how it should be. Never let an LA rule you.....guided by an LA perhaps...... but it is always your final say and if your not comfortable with what you are being told or advised then toughen up and just say no.

Mel.

[chickpea]

Yep! Back in control Tracy which is how it should be. Never let an LA rule you.....guided by an LA perhaps...... but it is always your final say and if your not comfortable with what you are being told or advised then toughen up and just say no.

Mel.

Letting agents are seriously beginning to cheese me off.

We've made it very clear we don't want children or dogs (will consider other pets) - in fact, we have said we are really looking for a professional couple.

Why, then, do they ring me about a viewing from a couple...with a dog?

Then this morning, they ring about another possible viewing. Hubby asks for all the info and they say, "oh, we haven't got that to hand just at the moment". Aaaaaaaaaagh!!!!!!

[Richlist]

Letting agents are seriously beginning to cheese me off.

But I thought you were using just one lettings agent ?

If so, then this sample of one is only going to show how bad they are, not necessarily how good the others can be.

Perhaps its time to find a new agent.

Best to go by recommendation if possible.....do you know any other landlords in the area who might know a good one ?

[chickpea]

Letting agents are seriously beginning to cheese me off.

But I thought you were using just one lettings agent ?

If so, then this sample of one is only going to show how bad they are, not necessarily how good the others can be.

Perhaps its time to find a new agent.

Best to go by recommendation if possible.....do you know any other landlords in the area who might know a good one ?

Sorry - I phrased that badly. We ARE with one agent...but within that agency, we are dealing with several different people...all of whom seem to be good at ignoring our preferences.

Took another call requesting a viewing this afternoon - single bloke...with his children staying at the house at weekends.

We can't find a new agent, because we are locked in with this one for 6 months sole agency, after which time we have to give 3 months notice, or pay a fee to them if we use a new agent at the same time.

It's really unfortunate - we chose this agency because we'd bought the house through them and found them very efficient and helpful. They charge 10% management fee (£240 start up costs) and are very close to the property (we had considered an agent more local to us, but decided against them because they deal with selling and renting a lot of much more expensive houses, so we felt they may not bother pushing our little 2 bed).

[Richlist]

We can't find a new agent, because we are locked in with this one for 6 months sole agency, after which time we have to give 3 months notice, or pay a fee to them if we use a new agent at the same time.

OK I understand that you are tied in contracturally BUT so are they.

Whilst you are required to meet YOUR contractural obligations, so are they. If they DON'T meet their obligations, repeatedly and in spite of being warned, given a chance to improve etc etc then they have breached their obligations.

Its time, if you haven't already done so, to ensure ALL your requests are put in writing.

Just because you are committed to them contracturally doesn't mean you have to tolerate continued poor service and them ignoring your requests, criteria and requirements.

Time to get heavy with them. Make it clear you will go elsewhere if there is just ONE more mistake.

[Reg]

Hi Tracey,

Have you ever consider managing the letting yourself?

As in my experience most letting agents are numpties. Careless in the least and useless in the extreme. They wont be lying awake at night worrying about things, as long as they get their commission that's all they're worried about.

A common mis-conception by landlords thinking of using a letting agent is "i don't need the hassle myself, i'll use an agent". The notion that a letting agent will magic away any problems is nonsense. Yes, if there's a problem they take the initial call, then call you, normally trying to get their "workman" to fix the problem and make a tidy mark-up at the same time. As you've found out, LAs don't care too much about the landlords concerns regarding suitable tenants.

I have never used an agent, I have made a few small mistakes along the way, but I soon learned and have never looked back.

As well as being fully in control, it has saved me a fortune

[chickpea]

Hi Tracey,

Have you ever consider managing the letting yourself?

As in my experience most letting agents are numpties. Careless in the least and useless in the extreme. They wont be lying awake at night worrying about things, as long as they get their commission that's all they're worried about.

A common mis-conception by landlords thinking of using a letting agent is "i don't need the hassle myself, i'll use an agent". The notion that a letting agent will magic away any problems is nonsense. Yes, if there's a problem they take the initial call, then call you, normally trying to get their "workman" to fix the problem and make a tidy mark-up at the same time. As you've found out, LAs don't care too much about the landlords concerns regarding suitable tenants.

I have never used an agent, I have made a few small mistakes along the way, but I soon learned and have never looked back.

As well as being fully in control, it has saved me a fortune

Thanks for your post, Reg :-)

Funnily enough, our financial adviser said the same thing (she has BTL's).

Our initial thought was to get the property up and running and maybe consider managing it ourself next year. I thought that using an agent would take some of the hassle out for us...but actually, they've been more hassle so far. If it hadn't been for the advice I've had on this board, the agent would have made me feel like our requirements were unreasonable - for example, we told them no dogs, they phone up to ask if it's ok for them to show the property to a couple who work full-time...with a dog - oh, but we shouldn't mind because the dog will live in a kennel in the (tiny, lawned, nicely-kept) garden!

Am I right in thinking we will be stuck with the agent for as long as the tenant they eventually find us stays in the property? Of course what would be ideal would be to get a tenant in that we like and then dump the agent as soon as our contract allows ;-)

[Richlist]

Am I right in thinking we will be stuck with the agent for as long as the tenant they eventually find us stays in the property?

You will normally be expected to pay the agents fees for as long as the tenant they found for you, remains your tenant.

Of course what would be ideal would be to get a tenant in that we like and then dump the agent as soon as our contract allows ;-)

Any contract between the agent and yourself is unlikely to allow you to 'dump' them. They may be prepared to accept a financial settlement though.

[Grampa]

I have never heard of been tied into a letting agent before a tenancy has started. A estate agent for selling yes but not for letting.

What does the contract say about you withdrawing the property from the market and then putting it back on with another agent in a months or 2 months time. That way you may be better off in the long run.

We never tie landlords in until the tenancy has started and that is only for the first 6 months to recoop our costs because we dont charge any set up costs up front.