PMK75 Posted June 24, 2011 Report Share Posted June 24, 2011 Hi All. I have a tenant who simply won’t leave. They have made excuse after excuse and delayed the process at every position. We have today received a date from the Court Bailiffs after serving a section 21 on the tenant. At the court hearing, the judge gave the tenant 4 weeks to leave. This date has passed and we arranged to the Court Bailiffs to evict them. The trouble is that the Court Bailiffs say they are very busy and can’t get to do the eviction for another 7 weeks. The tenant already owes us £4500 in rent arrears and if allowed to remain in the property for another 7 weeks, these arrears will be over £7000 ! Now that we have passed the courts date for the tenant to leave and are simply waiting for the Court Bailiffs, can we just pop round whilst they are out at work and change the locks? We don’t intent to chuck all their stuff in the street, we will keep it safe but simply want to deprive them access to it until they come round with a removals van. We understand we can’t manually drag them out of the house, but when they are out, and the date ruled by the judge has passed, can’t we just lock the door? Any advice would be very much appreciated and if you believe we CAN do as I propose, please try and supply a link to a legal document which would support your claim. Many thanks, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grampa Posted June 25, 2011 Report Share Posted June 25, 2011 No you can,t you have to wait for the court bailiff to get them out. But once the bailiff is booked to visit the tenants normally leave before then so just keep a eye on the property to see if they have gone but really to be on the save side wait the 7 weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melboy Posted June 25, 2011 Report Share Posted June 25, 2011 Hi All. Now that we have passed the courts date for the tenant to leave and are simply waiting for the Court Bailiffs, can we just pop round whilst they are out at work and change the locks? Many thanks, No, you can't. Unfortunately in this heavily overprotected Country you cannot, nor are you allowed to cause non-paying tenants any hassle otherwise you become the guilty one and are likely to be arrested and thrown into the Pokey and fed bread and water for 6 months for having the temerity to ask for rent for your private property from a Scumbag. They are waiting to be re-housed by the Council I have no doubt hence the reason why they won't leave on request but have to be evicted. Stupid UK Laws again. Write to Mr. Shapps Government Minister for housing with your case and tell him to pull his finger out! Many people have already done so I can tell you that. Mel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grampa Posted June 25, 2011 Report Share Posted June 25, 2011 In my area the 4 or 5 times I have had to arrange a bailliff over the years the waiting time was only 10-14 days. You must have more problem tenants in your area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carryon Regardless Posted June 25, 2011 Report Share Posted June 25, 2011 The court is usually expected to grant repossession in 14 days unless the T claims this would cause exceptional hardship. Was this claimed, and on what grounds ? I'm interested to know if we are seeing a trend for the courts to allow further unwarranted abuse. Those with experience will know that by the time these S21's go to court there has already been long periods where the T has been made aware of the repossession requirement. Recently I have heard of a few examples of the 14 days being extended to assist the poor poor T's. I would imagine that I am not alone in wondering if directives to the courts are causing us more expense. What area is the property in ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grampa Posted June 25, 2011 Report Share Posted June 25, 2011 I don't believe there is any set period for the judge to give a possession order but as stated the tenant can ask for longer (i think up to 6 weeks) for undue hardship. A possession order in 14 days has become the norm but why would a judge give longer even if the tenant didn't turn up which is what happened to me recently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LLAW96 Posted June 25, 2011 Report Share Posted June 25, 2011 Orders for possession are dealt with by s.89 Housing Act 1980 which states; Where a court makes an order for the possession of any land in a case not falling within the exceptions mentioned in subsection (2) below, the giving up of possession shall not be postponed (whether by the order or any variation, suspension or stay of execution) to a date later than fourteen days after the making of the order, unless it appears to the court that exceptional hardship would be caused by requiring possession to be given up by that date; and shall not in any event be postponed to a date later than six weeks after the making of the order. Do not worry about the exceptions, they rarely occur in a residential lettings. There is no power to go beyond 14 days, unless there is exceptional hardship ( i will deal with this below). Note 14 days is the maximum it is quite proper and reasonable for you to argue for an earlier date or even forthwith if the case merits it for instance, high arrears, wilful non payment, hardship of landlord, the list is endless. My advice is go prepared and agrue for the earliest date possible. Point out how long warrants are taking to enforce and the earlier the date the earlier the council will rehouse. There is a discretion where there is exceptional hardship to postpone the date up to 6 weeks. There is no definition of exceptional hardship, however it must go beyond just being made homeless. I would argue that it should be obvious where there is exceptional hardship. If the judge does use their discretion insist it is conditional i.e. payment of rent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carryon Regardless Posted June 26, 2011 Report Share Posted June 26, 2011 LAW your clarification is good, it gives us argument in court when a judge is intending to be sympathetic without just cause. Although a judge may play on the ambiguity of the legislation as after all they are God in that room. Your point of requesting a judge to make any extension order conditional, for example to include payment of rent, I see as having limited advantage. It is most likely that there will already be significant arrears, the T is more often complacent about this, and the J unlikely to be concerned. Following the conditional order the T is unlikely to change their attitude and if they fail to pay the 'daily' rent as ordered you would still have to return to the court to get blood from the stone as would be due anyway without the condition being made. A return to court date is likely to be 4 week +, the J if he respects the LL's position will then 'likely' give a 14 day repossession order any way. No win / no win, we just fund a very silly system again. Above we see 2 situations where J's have given extensions, we still don't understand the op's case and if there is reason but Grampa's T didn't even turn up to make request. I have interest to understand if we are wilfully being abused by our justice system as well as by the T's. As I feel the 2 times I went into the County Court resulted in ridiculous outcomes, but maybe I would feel this, I am developing the opinion that the court system has little value to us and the alternative is something that members of an organised society shouldn't have to consider. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melboy Posted June 26, 2011 Report Share Posted June 26, 2011 As I feel the 2 times I went into the County Court resulted in ridiculous outcomes, but maybe I would feel this, I am developing the opinion that the court system has little value to us and the alternative is something that members of an organised society shouldn't have to consider. Crazy isn't it. In the unlikely event of me having to take the option of a long winded court case and being hundreds of pounds out of pocket if not thousands or taking a different form of action .....then the latter it will be. My only slight worry on this last option is that my very good tenant of nearly 6 years is an active member of the SAS. Mel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carryon Regardless Posted June 26, 2011 Report Share Posted June 26, 2011 As long as that doesn't mean Scandinavian Air Services recruit him, contract him out, how much he costs will be cheaper than the more uncertain silly sysytem . Only joking honestly (as the tenant said to the landlord). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LLAW96 Posted June 26, 2011 Report Share Posted June 26, 2011 A conditional order is very useful. If a judge extends the full 6 weeks you could be out of pocket for 600 to 800 pounds. If the order is conditional you have a win win situation if the tenant pays then at least the arrears are stable, if they dont then they have breached the terms of the order and you should be able to apply for a warrant (provided this has been made clear on the face of the order). The problem you are facing here is that a judge is exercising a discretionary power, some judges are pro tenant some are pro landlord some just do not know what the law is. The reality is go prepared to argue your corner for the earliest possible date all judges will listen to reasoned argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melboy Posted June 26, 2011 Report Share Posted June 26, 2011 As long as that doesn't mean Scandinavian Air Services recruit him, contract him out, how much he costs will be cheaper than the more uncertain silly sysytem . Only joking honestly (as the tenant said to the landlord). One of the nicest Blokes you would ever want to meet.....off duty of course. About 4 years ago he caught a Fells going around the houses trying car doors to see if he could steal items of value. Now he could have easily killed him with his little finger but all he did was armed locked him and took him to his house sat him down and explained to him over a cup of tea about the errors of his ways and that it had to stop. If he saw him around there again he would do him serious injury starting with two broken arms. The Fella was so scared at the way he had been so treated initially by what was an act of kindness.....and probably the interrogation.... he couldn't wait to go out the door. Big Softies these SAS Guys..... but you can tell them that.... as I'm not. He is currently going backwards and forwards to Afganastan on VIP protection duty and he got badly shot up last year or at least his vehicle did and he was the sole survivor of a 4 man crew. Mel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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