Getting harassed by Shelter

[axil23]

I had a tenant that had not paid me the rent for 2 months and was uncontactable. So I took advice from the local Housing office set up by the City council for Landlords. They advised me to put up a sign outside the front door for the tenant to call if he was still living there, to take witness statements from the neighbors who confirmed that they had moved, to take a witness along with me to inspect the property was vacant. I did all of this and even took a video recording when I went in the first time with two other people.

Anyway I did not find anything in the house, nothing to suggest that anyone was living there. Nevertheless I did not take possession and left the house after I knew that everything was ok. The tenant had in fact moved out and seeked help from Shelter who then guided him to go back to the property till I took legal possession back. I am now in the process of doing that but the tenant has told Shelter that I had evicted them unlawfully and thats the reason they left and need a council house.

So now Shelter is asking for all proofs and is continually sending me letters for further information. I have the proof and have sent it to them but again they are asking for explanations.

Basically what my question here is how much power do they have and shall I get my Lawyer involved in this? Or is there a certain type of worded letter that I can send them to get their act together?

It really does leave a sour taste when a so called Charity guides T's to do wrong things.

[Carryon Regardless]

They have a solicitor that will advise on the more technical issues, but my experience with them, in the county court, are that the case worker will assist the client as a 'layperson'.

Shelter, in my case, acted in favour of the client even though 'errors' in the story were obvious. The case worker, at a face to face meeting, then supported 'errors' and was clearly not accurate with his own statements.

I organised the meeting in attempt to progress in an adult fashion, and reduce / prevent wasting time and effort. It was a waste of bloody effort in itself.

In court the 'errors' were clearly shown as such by me, I was claimant, sympathy went to the defendant.

My view is that Shelter is very dangerous and should not be trusted as an ethical organisation, exercise caution.

You may learn much of them by looking at their website, I haven't for many years, but they claim successes against the evil LL. Prior to DPS they enjoyed recovering deposits, and claims for harassment, dis repair....... They show the rental market to be full of abusing LL's. My perception was that they write very one sided with a bias to justify their cause.

Of course maybe I am just bitter at them costing me approx £3k.

By the way the defence offered was my agreement for T to do works in lieu of rent, coincidentally the value of works, w/o a chronological balance, had been calculated to match the claim. Some businessman I would have been.

[axil23]

They have a solicitor that will advise on the more technical issues, but my experience with them, in the county court, are that the case worker will assist the client as a 'layperson'.

Shelter, in my case, acted in favour of the client even though 'errors' in the story were obvious. The case worker, at a face to face meeting, then supported 'errors' and was clearly not accurate with his own statements.

I organised the meeting in attempt to progress in an adult fashion, and reduce / prevent wasting time and effort. It was a waste of bloody effort in itself.

In court the 'errors' were clearly shown as such by me, I was claimant, sympathy went to the defendant.

My view is that Shelter is very dangerous and should not be trusted as an ethical organisation, exercise caution.

You may learn much of them by looking at their website, I haven't for many years, but they claim successes against the evil LL. Prior to DPS they enjoyed recovering deposits, and claims for harassment, dis repair....... They show the rental market to be full of abusing LL's. My perception was that they write very one sided with a bias to justify their cause.

Of course maybe I am just bitter at them costing me approx £3k.

By the way the defence offered was my agreement for T to do works in lieu of rent, coincidentally the value of works, w/o a chronological balance, had been calculated to match the claim. Some businessman I would have been.

Interesting. So I should proceed with caution. Do you suggest I get my Lawyer involved which will cost me or just answer all their queries. Shall I expect them to turn up at the PCOL hearing in a couple of weeks armed with their Lawyer?

[Carryon Regardless]

Really it's a judgement call as you know the situation better, and of course your trying to understand your exposure.

Just because they ask the questions doesn't mean they are entitled to the answers.

They have no additional position of power (unless things have changed, which I doubt) but it does sound like they may have confidence that they have you on the run.

My thoughts are that in your shoes I would be reluctant to expend dosh unless very necessary. Expending my efforts just because they are causing me to would p*ss me off.

Should this end up in front of a judge it becomes important that you look as though it shouldn't have, or you have taken reasonable steps to prevent it. That is you weren't awkward.

It may be worth some research to see if Shelter have a damaged reputation in some cases and lost some credibility as an honourable organisation fighting for the little man.

My experience was that they got a good ear in court, I didn't. A clear disadvantage.

I perceive that there is also a trend to take from the rich and give to the corrupt nowadays.

I believe Shelter operatives are there mainly to gain experience for use in developing their career ?? They will be knowledgeable in tenancy law but your initial step to involve the Council Housing Office sounds good but I would consider the validity of the advice, but yor evidence sounds as though you were considerate of the T rights.

Your danger of illegal eviction comes from whether you have prevented your T from gaining access, it can be more complicated especially if your actions are perceived to cause the T to not want to occupy.

Record events chronologically and you may develop an overall view more easily, to show strengths and weaknesses of each argument.

See how you can demonstrate that the T has been able to attain access (if you changed the locks). Also how easily access has been facilitated when required.

Is there a possibility that the T lost his own keys, as an example some T even post them back through the letter box.

As you will be I'm interested in the opinions of others on this.

Grampa has good experience of dealing with our courts.

Richlist may show how a lack of forethought, management and organisation may be a part cause.

[Melboy]

I don't do DSS but it's always interesting to hear the plight of others who do and my goodness me in the 6 years I have been on this forum have I read some tales of woe.

I must be completely different to everyone else for having read axil23 story I would say he has done everything that any reasonable minded landlord could or would do given the circumstances described.

Now if it was me I would ignore Shelter and tell them to sod off as the tenant is a lying bar steward and if pressed I would list and describe ALL the things you did to ensure that the tenant had left of his own free will plus of course all the witness statements and video evidence you have to prove this as a fact and leave it at that.

Once you start getting lawyers involved you are opening up a money pit for yourself.

If you have to appear in Court your evidence and proof must convince a ruling judge that you have done everything possible at the time given what you were faced with and in my opinion how can any judge not disagree with you?

Why does anyone want to be a Landlord these days?

Mel.

[Carryon Regardless]

Mel I'm sure we agree that the laws regarding property rental are a farce.

The way they have evolved it's no wander there are mistakes made by T's and LL's. Then of course the legal profession can attack the reputed greedy LL.

My concern is that unless we have documentation demonstrating surrender, or a repossession order as LL's we run the risk of a claim.

(Even with the possession order you may require a Bailiff the give actual possession.)

We clearly have the imposed greater responsibility to manage situations within the ridiculous confines of the law or there is risk to us.

This risk more often means we shall suffer financial disadvantage, or worse criminal charges.

Success in a court will invariably mean the LL still loses, time, effort, cost, and certainly not to be understated STRESS.

It is intelligent to be cautious from the very point we take ownership of a rental property.

Inconsideration of your last question, -ya got me there.

[axil23]

It really is sad that so called Charities are set up to help people who are out to milk the system.

[Richlist]

I agree 100% with MELBOY........Other than that I don't have an opinion.

I'll certainly add the fact that : benefits tenants will often get advice from homeless charities, local councils and advice centres that will favour the tenant irrespective of common sense or the law., .........to my ever growing list of reasons to avoid benefits tenants like the plague.

I really wouldn't be a social landlord by choice, even if they paid me.

[Guest caravanj]

From what you say you should be ok because you can prove that you've taken all reasonable steps to show why you came to the conclusion that your T had moved out.

You've confirmed that you haven't repossessed your property so if you haven't changed the locks & or re-let the property then any illegal eviction claim will fail because the T can get back into the property so you don't need to get a solicitor involved at this stage.

My T has just started a 2 year prison term but I'm going down the Section 21 route because the T doesn't have any rights or defence against a Section 21 ( subject to all the paperwork being correct which is why I pay a specialist to do it ) & no matter how sympathetic the Judge my be to my T he has no alternative but to give me the property back.