Tenants Problems Part 2

[fiffie]

Hello, I wonder if I might ask another question please? We have a boyfriend/girlfriend renting our house - they have been there for 7 months, they had a 6 month contract, and obviously we've had no problems so it has just continued. However, boyfriend has left girlfriend, and he wants his name off the tenancy immediately, the girlfriend is happy for this, we are happy for this, but how do we do it? do we serve them both notice to quit? and then re-do her another contract or is there another method such as strike the boyfriend off if he agrees immediately with his signature. Any idea of how we would word a letter to them? he has moved quite a long way away, so I think a journey to him is not feasible. He doesn't read or write, he doesn't have a copy of the current contract as his girlfriend has it and she has refused him access, he has asked us for another key so he can enter the property. Thank you so much if anybody has any ideas.

[Carryon Regardless]

I would let them resolve their present differences before considering the next step.

If he gets silly he still has responsibility toward the tenancy and property.

Both are required to terminate the present tenancy, then you are free to create a new AST as you please.

A difficulty with the young single female is that you are unable to assess future likely 'guests'.

You are then just hopeful that the next chap doesn't have desire to mark his scent, some feel the need to demonstrate the rights of the little lady.

I hope you have / will have a guarantor, and possibly other things on the Richlist list.

PS. Don't get involved with their 'seperation' and who has rights to what you can't win in that situation.

Also the bf's difficulties aren't your problem.

[Melboy]

1. If he moves out and is not on the tenancy agreement then he is not entitled to a key unless G/F gives him a key....but why would she?

2. New contract in her name removing B/F from the scene entirely.

3. My immediete thought would be can she manage the rent without the B/F contributions?

4. Watch out for new entrants to the property for her affections.

Never get involved in tenants personal disputes. You are effectively running a business and it's a business head you should have on in your quoted circumstances and not a social welfare one.

Mel.

[Carryon Regardless]

The only issue with '2' is that if the bf hasn't surrendered he is still T (bearing in mind that people change their mind to suit the need).

There are no rights to exclude him as T until the existing tenancy is 'closed out', of course the gf may surrender the tenancy.

At this point you have no rights to exclude him from the property,

I view however the fact that he has mislaid his key is his problem, he does have the right to employ a locksmith to gain entry (or other chosen method).

[fiffie]

The only issue with '2' is that if the bf hasn't surrendered he is still T (bearing in mind that people change their mind to suit the need).

There are no rights to exclude him as T until the existing tenancy is 'closed out', of course the gf may surrender the tenancy.

At this point you have no rights to exclude him from the property,

I view however the fact that he has mislaid his key is his problem, he does have the right to employ a locksmith to gain entry (or other chosen method).

[fiffie]

Hi, thank you for replies. Cor - can I ask you so I am clear - if the tenancy is in joint names is it sufficient to deal with only one of the parties to agree notice? and to end the tenancy or do we have to have both signatures? thank you.

[Melboy]

Quote from OP fiffie

......"and he wants his name off the tenancy immediately"

They are both beyond the 6 month AST agreement and are now into the 7th month on a rolling contract which means if he wants out then he can surrender or forfeit any right to occupation with 1 months notice.....if he wants to go down that route or he leaves immedietely which is what it appears he has done. He can't have it both ways to suit his needs especially as he has moved out of the area. Clearly he won't be contributing to the rental payment.

If he wants another key for access then that is between him and ex G/F. ? But why? they have split-up havn't they. Why would G/F want him back?

I am out of this discussion now because we are getting into social welfare.

Mel.

[Carryon Regardless]

The bf does have rights as a T, as we see with another thread where a T is in jail he is still T. Working away, backpacking round the world no matter until the is tenancy closed out there are responsibilities toward a tenancy from both L and T.

This is often where I have found use of a guarantor, in situations of abandonment, failure to communicate by T, I effectively pass the problem to G by reminding them of the G's responsibility.

The reasons for the bf wishing access are his business. My guess is he wants his things and she may be afraid he will take more than is right. Their problem.

Your concern is the loss of emotional control that may result in damage to your property. I would remind him of his responsibilities as T in advance.

I apologise for my earlier statement.

To surrender both T's need to agree. They do verbally, apparently, but you need it documented. (I shall edit my earlier mistake).

I would guess that he will sign such a declaration when his needs are satisfied ??

I also see a complication in that he won't know what he's signing. For your protection you may want someone who can assist him to understand. You and the gf have an interest so aren't really suitable.

[Carryon Regardless]

[fiffie]

Thank you to everyone - I'm a little clearer. It is true he wants a key to get his stuff, he has already climbed in through a window twice, and in temper he threw and ashtray and put 2 holes in the wall he told me, so I am interested if the house gets damaged. We were due to do a house inspection 2 weeks ago and they cancelled. Thank you once again, we just want to keep it legal as they have paid their rent.

[Carryon Regardless]

Not knowing the result of this situation and it's complications I would seriously consider serving a S21 notice for repossession.

If they both surrender then you have the result, if they don't and you desire repossession you are closer to that result.

If you create a new AST then the S21 is void.

From this situation I am not sure I would see the gf as a desirable future T.

The inspection might well help you develop your opinion.

[fiffie]

Thank you - just as a little note as in you wouldn't believe this, but 2 months ago she told me the toilet had broken, and she had taken the liberty of getting it fixed and had deducted £100 from the rent. She assured us it was a brand new toilet and low cistern, and she had a reciept for us, anyway we discovered a couple of days ago she actually never had the toilet fitted - our fault for not doing a house inspection, but they cancelled it an hour beforehand and then this row errupted with the boyfriend. Thanks for your advice!

[Grampa]

I would say the best thing is to serve a s21 in both names and get new tenants.

[Melboy]

..........as the story unfolds piece by piece I would say evict them ASAP!

Mel.

[fiffie]

Might I update the situation a little please? We met with bf and gf and served them both notice to end the tenancy yesterday - 25th May. BF has gone. GF asked if she could keep the house alone, she said she can afford it, so could we do her a new tenancy agreement. We know where she works, we are unsure if she can afford it, but I know her parents help her out financially a lot. So, we arranged to meet today to sign a new contract, pay her month rent upfront and do a house inspection and she has asked us to postpone it until next week, so she is actually in the house with no contract from today - and she hasn't paid the rent that was due yesterday either. My question is, if we were to give her a new tenancy, can we do it on a month-to-month tenancy i.e. rolling over, or do we have to start all over again with the AST? I have massive reservations about giving her any tenancy but my hb says is it worth the hassle of finding new tenants when all she does is pay late and cancels house inspections. By the way, we went into the house last week to have a chat about some damage her bf did and there was nothing that made me worried. Just a little note that we don't live in an affluent area and the house is on the edge of a council estate which is quite run down so our choice of tenants might be limited compared to other areas. When we advertised the house last time we were saturated with single mums on benefits, we've done that - and not doing it again! So, this couple were both working when they moved in - we checked - but she has changed jobs. Thank you.

[Carryon Regardless]

Do you have documentation to show the bf has surrendered his part of the tenancy ?

Without there is possibility he may claim rights as T.

Giving a new AST gives rights for further 6 months (min), it also voids the notice.

Allowing the situation to run as a periodic (month to month) is better for you, it can also remind her to tow the line, but in truth I would be surprised if she does as her history is VERY poor.

If you feel it unlikely you can get good T's then maybe she's as good as the unknown.

Try advertising to see what response you get, or approach LA's to see if they they have quality T's waiting. You have 2 months before going for repossession anyway (this assumes you served S21's).

[fiffie]

Hi, thank you for reply. Yes bf signed a letter - he won't be any more bother, he has moved a long way away.

I suppose I am concerned that she is in the house without a contract. They both gave us a letter giving up their tenancy and signed it although we agreed to do a new tenancy with her starting on 25th which was yesterday. So, in theory, she has given us her notice which we accepted. Never black and white is it? We got rid of a nightmare single mother last time and we thought these 2 might be easier as we dropped the rent by £100 to make it more affordable for them. Thank you.

[Carryon Regardless]

They were both equally liable under the AST, him surrendering his part doesn't make her any less liable in my mind.

A SPT (Statutory Periodic Tenancy) as she is now in runs on the terms of the original AST (if fair and enforceable), so she is still in contract.

When a T serves notice a L can't assume to take possession at the end of notice the T must surrender, she is still there so she hasn't.

She is still liable as a T as long as she occupies.

Others here might have a view on the situation of a T remaining after the notice period (given by T) has expired and they still remain.

TBH I wouldn't like to say if they are liable for rent daily or until the end of the current rental peroid. I wouldn't believe the notice given to be voided unless agreed by both parties.

[fiffie]

Thank you.

[Simon Dewsberry]

They were both equally liable under the AST, him surrendering his part doesn't make her any less liable in my mind.

A SPT (Statutory Periodic Tenancy) as she is now in runs on the terms of the original AST (if fair and enforceable), so she is still in contract.

When a T serves notice a L can't assume to take possession at the end of notice the T must surrender, she is still there so she hasn't.

She is still liable as a T as long as she occupies.

Others here might have a view on the situation of a T remaining after the notice period (given by T) has expired and they still remain.

TBH I wouldn't like to say if they are liable for rent daily or until the end of the current rental peroid. I wouldn't believe the notice given to be voided unless agreed by both parties.

If T gives notice and fails to leave at end of notive period then DOUBLE rent is payable from DAY1 after notice period has expired - old law still in place google it !

This T needs referencing properly - and quite probably you need a G (properly referenced) if T to remain.

Under NO cicumstances should T be allowed to carry out works on prop without express permission from LL ( if this is not in AST then get a new one)

and you do NOT allow rent to be withheld unless agreed beforehand.

As Mel said - stop playing social worker - this is a business - If T unsuitable - get rid.

[Grampa]

The Distress for Rent Act 1737 entitles the landlord to charge the tenant double rent (not value), where the tenant has given the landlord notice of his intention to leave the premises but then fails to do so.

I know of one case when it was used as late as the 90's, so it can still be used.

[Carryon Regardless]

Thanks for the double rent pointer. Nice, if you can get it.

[fiffie]

Wow - thank you. I think we are being too nice and understanding. BF told GF that he told us about the toilet - apparently she had a plumber in a couple of days ago and fitted a toilet. Course we have not been able to do a house inspection as she cancels an hour beforehand. My gut feeling is to evict her - guess we would have to go with a S21 even though she has given us her notice? Thanks for advice!!!! Much appreciated.