Tenant has Warmfront grant

[Webb]

Unbeknown to me, a tenant has on own initiative obtained a full £2,700 Warmfront grant and quote to almost fully pay for installation of gas central heating (boiler + 5 rads). The tenant has agreed to pay the small difference to make up the quote and has asked permission to go ahead.

It seems like a good deal, as property gains CH at no apparent cost to owner.

What are obligations, implications and responsibilities for landlord?

Does anyone have experience of this?

The only information I have is that there must be no increase in rent for two years, (other than for inflation).

Does this secure tenancy for 2 years?

Does the agreement need to be changed? What needs to be in writing?

[GPEL]

Tell your tenant in writing that you agree for them to proceed with the work on the understanding that it is unconditional on you, there is no financial obligation on yourself and the tenant is responsible for any cost with remedial work or other wise. Then thank them and offer a renewed and extended tenancy at the same rent level as a thank you for progressing this.

[Chestnut]

How can the tenant be made responsible for what is a fixture to the building?

Webb (now renamed Chestnut after log-in fault !)

[GPEL]

The tenant can be made responsible for any associated costs of instaling the fitting if the landlord agrees to the work but at no cost to himself. Afterall, he is under no obligation to allow the work in the first place whether or not someone else views it as an improvement.

[Trenners]

Hi all,

I have loads of experience relating to Warmfront grants because any DSS tenant is entitled to apply, simply by completing a form on the warmfront web site, a warmfront energy assessor then visits the property and makes recommendations, then the landlord is asked to grant permission for the work to be undertaken. The assessor usually recommends loft insulation, cavity wall insulation, draft proofing and energy efficient light bulbs. Obviously, for those properties without central heating, he will also recommend central heating !

The warmfront grant is for a maximum of £2,700 - if more work / money is required then the TENANT has to make up the difference (if they want the work to go ahead and the landlord approves it). If less than £2,700 is used then a future application for another warmfront grant can be made - but the total grant payable across all applications can only be £2,700.

So - for all you landlords that discriminate against DSS tenants ...... YOU ARE LOSING £2,700 PER PROPERTY FROM AVAILABLE GOVERNMENT GRANTS.

Any landlords interested in accepting DSS tenants now ? <big grin>

Mark

[GPEL]

No.

[Chestnut]

What if the tenant decides to vacate after a few months, maybe hasn't paid up the difference, and/or the system goes wrong? Who takes on the possible remedial cost liabilities? Presumably the landlord.

Also I've read that landlords who refuse to authorise the work are liable to be reported to Local Authority. What does that mean?

I would welcome a pointer to some better information on landlord's obligations and implications for Warmfront. I can't find much on their site. Landlords don't seem to figure much in this scheme - even to the extent of not actually receiving details of the proposals of where to cut holes in their own (grade 2 listed) buildings!

Otherwise I agree, when the grant covers nearly all the cost, it looks a good deal.

[Trenners]

Hi,

The reason why landlords don't figure very much in the warmfront scheme is because the grant is for tenants and the landlord has simply got to give permission for the recommended work to take place. The tenant is responsible for paying any shortfall to warmfront not the landlord. I can't see how the landlord can be asked to pay any money (to warmfront) given that the contract is between warmfront and the tenant.

I don't understand why a landlord would not approve work that has been recommended by an Energy Assessor and is being paid for by a Government grant. If the landlord doesn't approve the work then the implication is that a DSS tenant is being housed in an "energy inefficient" house and the local authority may take the view that they would want to re-house the tenant (into a more energy efficient property).

This energy efficiency stuff is going to be a really big deal moving forward with Energy Performance Certificates being made mandatory for all new tenancies that are created after 1st October 2008. Tenants may well choose NOT to rent your property because it is inefficient and expensive to run (ie: due to having no loft insultation, draft proofing and cavity wall insultation the utility bills are going to be atronomical).

Warmfront grants are a great way to improve energy efficiency AT ZERO COST or RISK to the landlord.

Mark

[GPEL]

Recent elections show we're fed up with Big Brother telling us what's good for us. Landlords will decide for themselves for their own reasons whether or not they want the work. For many properties, EPCs will be puff & hot air.

[Chestnut]

Thank you Trenners and Gpel for your interest in this one.

Of course it's a good way to get a property upgraded but I'm still not clear what happens to liabilities if, say, the tenant departs before the work is proven.

1) Where can I find this information?

2) Should the landlord be given a copy of the details of work involved?

So far the tenant has apparently specified rad positions, pipe runs etc. and there is a flue through the roof which may need planning permission as listed in a conservation area. Whose responsibility is that?

Sorry to sound so vague but this property belongs to a church and, as the techy to hand, I have only just been handed the papers - just a list of bits, so it seems!

[GPEL]

My advice would be to put the onus on your tenant/agent to provide you with contractual information pertaining to your liaibility before proceeding with anything. They want it, they can do the leg work.

[Chestnut]

Leg work? I totally agree, GPEL.

But my (cynical) concern is that if any expenses are involved the tenant might just do leg work through the front door! It does happen.

Is there a website where can I find the "legal and binding" stuff for the tenant on a deal like this?

[GPEL]

Don't know of one but I do know that a third party cannot be commited to an expense by others without their agreement.

[Simon Dewsberry]

Another pertinent question...

Who is carrying out said works ......warmfront staff.....or

local contractors appointed by T ?

i certainly wouldn't allow any works to any of my properties by "unknown" workman.........

Neither does "free loft insulation with every dss T" appeal to me .....

Personally i get pretty pxxd off with basic stuff like an agent organising a "to let" sign and knocking chunks out of my bathstone .....let alone letting unknowns work on my prop ........

If the grant comes as cash and LL appoints contractors then that is different !!! who knows maybe you will have a bit of change left over !

As Mark points out enegy efficiency WILL become a major issue in the very near future ...with being forced to make properties more energy efficient..

The Rodent

[Chestnut]

Rodent, you somewhat echo my concerns. In my case the installer's survey was booked with the tenant and carried out without landlord's presence.

The installer, who may be local, is appointed by eaga(?) who I think run the Warmfront Team on behalf of Gov. Not tenant or landlord.

When I've unravelled this saga I'll try to keep you posted.

[Melboy]

Warmfront grants are available to Private Tenants not just DSS.....been there and done it. Warmfront use their own contractors and the installation work was 1st class work upon inspection by me with a quality boiler and I am a retired heating engineer!

[Chestnut]

Melboy,

Thanks! Your remark about quality of work has given me some confidence at last!

And since my last comment *contractor's surveyor has made appointment to do a second survey in my presence, and properly check Planning implications etc. for ancient building. But he was not able to answer my legal contractual questions regarding tenant....

(*For general info. - contractor is appointed by 'eaga' from Newcastle-upon-Tyne, who run Warmfront countrywide for Defra i.e. Gov. - Not controlled by LL or T, in this case both in Midlands.)

What paperwork did you as LL have from Warmfront or T to ensure T covered any surplus costs and didn't flit meantime, e.g. risk of leaving poor CofE Church with a liability etc.....?

[insulate-it]

Hi all,

Just thought I'd let you know that the Warmfront grant has now been increased to £3500

The following is a direct quote from the Warmfront website:

" If you own your own home or rent it from a private landlord, you may be eligible for a grant of up to £3,500 (or £6,000 if oil central heating is involved) under the Warm Front Scheme. Warm Front Grants are available in England only; other schemes operate in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. If the property has previously received Warm Front improvements, the grant now available will be the balance of £3,500 (or £6,000 if oil central heating is involved) less the value of all works previously completed. "

Hope this is of interest!

On another note - I'm looking for landlords/letting agents and management companies in the North West (preferrably Greater Manchester/Cheshire/Lancashire area) who would be interested in free insulation measures ie. cavity wall and loft insulation to all residential properties in their portfolio.

Membership of a certain professional association is required but other than joining fees (which I can provide a discount for) there is absolutely no charge to you!

This is a 100% genuine scheme whether you have 1 to 500 or 20 to 2000 properties and does not rely on tenants recieving benefits or having to qualify in any other way!

We liase with you, the landlord, so you know exactly whats happening to your property at all times!

For more details and/or an information pack you can PM me or email me direct at info@insulate-it.co.uk]info@insulate-it.co.uk

I can also offer advice on Warmfront/EAGA grants and any other insulation/energy efficiency matters you may have.

Thanks, Nick (INSULATE-IT)

[Chestnut]

Welcome back this topic! ........and thanks for information about the increase.

The upshot of the previous saga was that after I pointed out the need for planning consent for the flue outlet (it's a tudor cottage in a conservation area) everyone went away......including the HB tenant. (The current tenant does not qualify.)

[mad_maz]

Hi

All of my tenants (both working & and those in receipt of benefits) have had improvements made, via a local contractor running the same scheme as Warmfront, as recommended by the local council.

Therefore it is not only DSS claimants who are eligible. No cost has been incurred to any of my tenants.

[insulate-it]

Hi

All of my tenants (both working & and those in receipt of benefits) have had improvements made, via a local contractor running the same scheme as Warmfront, as recommended by the local council.

Therefore it is not only DSS claimants who are eligible. No cost has been incurred to any of my tenants.

Are your properties in the Tameside area by any chance?

I'm currently managing a scheme in conjunction with Tameside environmental services which is offering insulation measures to everyone in the Waterloo ward area.

Central heating grants are usually not available on this type of scheme run by local councils unless the resident is in receipt of benefits!

[Chestnut]

How do non-benefit tenants qualify for Warmfront?

All the criteria on the Warmfront website refer to benefits of some sort.

[insulate-it]

How do non-benefit tenants qualify for Warmfront?

All the criteria on the Warmfront website refer to benefits of some sort.

They can't qualify for a "Warmfront" grant per se but there are other methods of funding available.

The "Warmfront" scheme's aim is to provide people who are in receipt of a qualifying benefit a means to improve the energy efficiency of the property in which they reside, whether they are a home-owner or private tenant.

The grant is for £3500 which is to cover the cost of Cavity wall and Loft insulation (if required) and upgrades or repairs to heating systems. Again, they must be in receipt of a qualifying benefit to qualify for the "Warmfront" scheme and there are other stipulations for private tenants too!!!

Insulation companies usually have access to utility company funding and they approach local councils with a view to running a blanket scheme in an area. The council would usually be expected to contribute funding and they expect that their property stock would be serviced first. If there is any funding left over (which is increasingly the case nowadays as the majority of council stock has been insulated!!) the scheme would be opened up to include privately owned and rented properties.

I am not aware of a single scheme of this type anywhere in the country that has ever (or will ever!!) included central heating upgrades/repairs to the privately owned and rented property sectors without benefits playing a factor!

I have access to funding to provide free insulation measures (Cavity wall and Loft insulation only) to private landlords, letting agents, management companies and housing associations. My company is the only such company in the country with access to direct DEFRA funding primarily for the private rental sector! At this moment we are piloting the scheme through one of the landlord associations in the north-west and are therefore looking for private landlords, letting agents, management companies and housing associations within the north-west area.

email me at info@insulate-it.co.uk for more info

[Melboy]

I have two experiences with Warmfront CH installations.

My MiL had it carried out on her rented property and the installation was 1st class workmanship...could not fault it.

My Mother had Warmfront CH installed on her privately owned bungalow and the installation was extremely poor.

We had to rectify several items of poor workmanship and we informed Warmfront Installers who informed us that the person was no longer working for them!

Mel.

[AllanD]

I spoke to one of my tennants who is on disability benefit etc about this and she has she rang me saying she applied but at the end of the application it said she needed proof she was responsible for the upkeep of the heating system, I can't believe any tennant is responsible for this so have things changed or will she still be able to get a grant?