Is It worth Re-entering the BTL Market?

[Melboy]

Picking up on what Richlist said in another topic about considering re-entering the BTL again as he had a "stash of cash" sitting in a  "practically zero return bank account".

I too was faced with this same question 4 years ago last month RL. Mind you interest rates were really appalling back then and looking at mine at the time I was getting a massive 0.45% on my hard earned (over many years) wedge.  Being an older BTL'er landlord for many years. OK very old..... I was quite happy with my easily managed property portfolio and looking for an easier retirement but not a Sunseeker yacht in the Caribbean.

              It was back then a very nice smart'ish modern 2 bed semi with a garage became available across the road from one of my rental properties and that was that really. The mist descended and I had to buy it even though it didn't really make sense to do so at the time except I knew I could do something with it because it's in the blood.

Mrs Melboy was not impressed I have to say but she was sure of three things. 1. It was a bit overpriced. 2. Thousands of pounds to pay in extra SDLT payable due to being a landlord investor. 3. Why can't you retire gracefully like other Men and take up golf! 

Anyway, I bought it. I spent a Grand doing it up a bit to presentation standards and found a pair of very nice tenants who are still with me.   So was it worth it?  No doubt about it at all in my view. Capital appreciation on this property if I was to sell today would be a minimum of £35,000 due to the insatiable rise in property values over the 4 years. That's always a bonus but of course it could have turned the other way, but it didn't. Rental income over the 4 years has obviously exceeded any bank account IR and it has been profitable but there has been capital expenditure like new gas boiler, fencing and many other items etc. etc.

So looking back......no regrets at all.   D'you know what if something decent came along I reckon I would go for it again. Just one person to convince though. 😀

[Carryon Regardless]

Nice one Mel.

Now I have a decent one for you, it was returned to my possession only today. The sale sign is up already.

On a similar way of thinking, would I do it all again with BTL's? Yes I would, but in very different ways.

If I had the benefit of hindsight before i started in this business I believe I / we would have enough of a pot to retire on now.

[Melboy]

Sorry COR Wales is definitely off my list which is a shame really as I nearly bought a smart modern 2 bed semi in Newport Wales a few years back but that was long before the the present Welsh Labour party had a real anti landlord agenda which I think is going to back-fire on them big time when the social housing queues stretch back into England.

Mind you with the news released today by this anti landlord Conservative Government regarding rental property re-possession criteria and even more tenants rights will, in time, smack them in the face as even more private landlords sell up and take advantage of the rapidly rising UK interest rates for their cash which are probably going to rise again today.

Anyone thinking of buying into the BTL property market now really should look at a 10 year time span as a minimum investment term for their money. 

[Richlist]

Just imagine a World where the sun is always shining. A place where when you let your property you have no expense allowances. You cannot offset your mortgage costs, repairs, maintenance, insurance, agent fees or any other expenses. An Eldorado where your whole rental income is subject to income tax......and you have to submit a tax return every 3 months.

Where is this World ?......... In Spain ......if you are a non resident home owner who let's out property.

Of course it does mean you don't need any receipts so you can get anything & everything done incredibly cheaply just by paying cash ! 😇😇

[Richlist]

I heard of a potential business opportunity yesterday for those brave enough to get in early. Apparently there is likely to be a strong market for flying relocated immigrants from Rwanda back to France in the near future.

Anyone fancy sharing the cost of a good second hand Boeing767 to get the party started ?

[Carryon Regardless]

1 hour ago, Richlist said:

I heard of a potential business opportunity yesterday for those brave enough to get in early. Apparently there is likely to be a strong market for flying relocated immigrants from Rwanda back to France in the near future.

Anyone fancy sharing the cost of a good second hand Boeing767 to get the party started ?

The problem will arise when the French air traffic control redirects the flight to the UK, if they're not on strike anyway.

I read, so take as you will, that France give free train travel warrants to immigrants that wish to travel north. Thus they are then closer to the camps for departure across the channel.

Nice tip RL re: Spain. I / we have had thoughts about relocating there. 1st would be to organise our own settlement, 2nd would be to create a holiday letting business. It's v early days and lifting my anchors here (Wales clearly 1st) is part of the design.

Becoming resident there is more difficult post Brexit, although I believe Spain wish to restore ease of relations with us fruitful Brits. But your suggestion is that making a reasonable profit is Spain might be a challenge, that assuming the same tax status applies to holiday letting as does domestic letting.

I wonder if Greece still ignore their taxman.

[Carryon Regardless]

3 hours ago, Melboy said:

Sorry COR Wales is definitely off my list

Tbh I don't blame you.

On Saturday we take the batteries and some other kit to Beaumaris for the new owner of the yacht. Whilst we both feel some sorrow we know selling it is the best thing.

It is v churlish I know, but I try as best I can to buy anything I need for Wales in England now, fuel included. I would resent any of my dosh helping the Welsh economy. What have the Welsh ever done for me? Gosh, we even built their castles.

[Richlist]

14 minutes ago, Carryon Regardless said:

The problem will arise when the French air traffic control redirects the flight to the UK, if they're not on strike anyway.

I read, so take as you will, that France give free train travel warrants to immigrants that wish to travel north. Thus they are then closer to the camps for departure across the channel.

Nice tip RL re: Spain. I / we have had thoughts about relocating there. 1st would be to organise our own settlement, 2nd would be to create a holiday letting business. It's v early days and lifting my anchors here (Wales clearly 1st) is part of the design.

Becoming resident there is more difficult post Brexit, although I believe Spain wish to restore ease of relations with us fruitful Brits. But your suggestion is that making a reasonable profit is Spain might be a challenge, that assuming the same tax status applies to holiday letting as does domestic letting.

I wonder if Greece still ignore their taxman.

If you move to Spain & become a resident there are some advantages over non residency. Income tax is 19% for residents & 24% for non residents. So what you are considering is the alternative World of becoming a resident which carries a whole lot of benefits compared to me.....and some of those benefits relate to rental property. Do not assume what I have posted above would apply to you as a resident.

I often frequent a website/forum that provides useful information & discussion for Spain. Here is the link, you might find it interesting....

https://www.talkquesada.com

 

 

 

 

 

[Carryon Regardless]

Thanks RL, I would look to confirm information on the fools rush in type thinking. I've an expat friend who has Spanish residency on Lanzarote (too hot for my northern complexion) and get some tips there.

My cunning plan is over approx 4 years. As is usual a battle plan rarely survives the 1st encounter with the enemy. The remaining welsh house shouldn't be issue, assuming the market holds out long enough to support a reasonable sale.

Selling the flats caught me as the lease is no longer long enough to support remortgage for a buyer/s. I am reluctant to spend ,000's on a lease purchase anyway so more inclined to keep taking those revenues and hope legislation will give us advantage in future, at some time.

With enough to be dealing with now the English properties can wait. Meanwhile I envisage more cr*p from the English gov't, such as the incoming right of tenants to have animals.

 

[Melboy]

 

You are not alone COR.  😀  This is an extract I found yesterday in a Rental Landlord Investment Article.

"Amy Jones*, 50, who manages a portfolio of five buy-to-lets in Wales, said scrapping “no-fault” evictions means that many tenancies will be too risky for landlords to consider. She said: “I for one am selling up, all of them. I will sell one this year and the rest next year. By next year, you’ll be left with no small landlords and tenants will be left with higher prices".

Oh! .........and whilst I am here what's with the waving hand on my Avatar ( and everyone else's? )   It states I am a Newbie (1/14?)  'Scuse me but I have been a member of this landlords forum since 2005.    😅

[Carryon Regardless]

As I understand Mel a LL can still use the S21 no fault eviction in Wales. I just have and no defence was raised.

On 15th July the period of the S21 will be extended to 6 months, Shelter are disgusted and fear an increase in S21's before this. It effectively gives any new tenant 12 months tenure, I haven't researched the S8 route for Wales recently, to see if it is still as it was.

So soon England will remove our S21 route. I'm all for housing security but here there is a total failure to recognise that intelligent LL's don't evict for no reason. Either the tenancy is bad or they wish to sell. If the tenancy is bad I don't see the LL should be forced to suffer it for longer. If the LL wishes to sell then keeping them trapped is a terrible design in this supposedly capitalist free country.

A few years back a drinking buddy was outed by a S21, so he was was hunting for the next domicile. We suggested he might consider buying, with a mortgage. As is usual for this Socialist bod he became angry "I don't want a mortgage". We shrugged shoulders, it's his life. But he is an example of some one that expects society to take responsibility for his welfare, imo this has been normalised.

My longest tenants (Wales) served and left late last year. Around 2004 I offered them the house at £54k, a good deal for them. They rejected believing that prices were artificially high. Had they bought they would have paid less than their rent for a mortgage and owned outright by 2019. they bought a few miles away at £135k, I've just sold at £137,500.

LL's are considered greedy and uncaring, too many people believe the media cr*p and don't recognise that many tenants, not all, could easily have bettered themselves. But I don't see attitudes changing any time soon, and politicians pander to these whims.