Flaw in new s21 rules?

[Grampa]

I think I have across a major flaw in one part of the new s21 rules.

As we all know the new s21 (6a) which is to be used on any AST new or a renewal signed after Oct 2015. One of the requirements to use this S21 (6A) is that it cannot be served within the first 4 months of a "NEW" tenancy but this requirement is not necessary for a renewal tenancy with the same tenants and same property. 

So far so good.

But this new S21 (6A) only has a lifespan of 6 months from service.

SO

Mr landlord who has just granted his tenants a renewed tenancy (1st jan 2016 - 31st Dec 2016) for 12 months and has to give notice for whatever reason and serves a s21(6a). He can serve it at any time because there is a special allowance within the regulation and doesnt need to wait 4 months.

BUT

If he serves it between 1st Jan 2016 and 29th june 2016 the 6 months lifespan of the S21 would expire before it could be acted upon. 

So why did the government make the allowance to allow the service a s21 earlier on renewals if they would be invalid by the time of wanting to act on them?

Is this the governments way of getting more evictions to be struck out at the landlords expense or just a badly worded act of Parliament drafted by old duffer judges who have been at the Port bottle too much at lunch time.

 

 

 

[Mortitia]

You've got it in one Grampa.

Just like the old git judges who won't allow the names of Elton John and his hubby David Furnish to be published in England and Wales for involvement in a 'menage a trois'. 

I can't believe I wrote that...........

[Richlist]

I think it's just a matter of serving the new s21 in line with the new time limits that go with it. I don't see it as any sort of a problem.

I believe the Gov were unhappy with the number of landlords who just served an s21 at any opportunity they could, many serving them at the start of each new tenancy. They didn't like the tenants living almost permanently under the threat of looseing their homes with an s21 served on them and permanently valid.

The new rules mean that an s21 can't be served at the start of a new tenancy and it gives a tenant a breathing space and an opportunity to prove they are good tenants.

[Grampa]

3 hours ago, Richlist said:

I think it's just a matter of serving the new s21 in line with the new time limits that go with it. I don't see it as any sort of a problem.

 

It not as simple as that. Even if you waited the first 4 months of a 12 month tenancy and served the notice it would still be invalid before the tenancy had ended.

[Richlist]

I must be missing something here because it all seems very straightforward to me......

For New Tenancies:-

The rules aren't saying you must serve the s21 at 4 months, they are saying you must not serve the s21 at any time during the first 4 months. For a 6 month tenancy you can serve at 4 months. For a 12 month tenancy you would serve the s21 after 6 months to ensure it didn't expire before the end of the fixed term of the tenancy.

Existing Tenancies:

The landlord is not prohibited from serving an s21 during the first 4 months of the tenancy agreement. If the tenancy agreement is for 6 months the landlord can serve an s21 at any time during the 6 months and it will not expire before the end of the agreement. For a 12 month tenancy it would need to be served after 6 months, the same as for a new tenancy, to ensure it didn't expire.

 

[Grampa]

I just think it just increases the room for error and i think it is unrealistic for the average landlord to know the finer points and timescales of serving the notice. Add to that all the extra documentation that needs to be given to the tenant or any s21 is invalid as well and it is a recipe for failure.  

[Richlist]

I agree.

Being a landlord has never been particularly easy. There have always been a lot of opportunities to get it wrong and this is just another to add to the list.

The system is never going to be perfect, perhaps it never will be. The Government of the day will be forever amending and fine tuning requirements.

Serious problems should be reported in writing to anyone who can do something about it... the Gov' Minister responsible, your MP, Landlord Associations etc.

Personally I just roll with the punches. Fortunately I don't have to serve many s21's.......but I understand how it affects you more often because of your lettings business. 

[Grampa]

I dont serve many S21 these days compared to 4-5 years ago. We have tighten up a lot on our referencing and are a lot more choosey. Most s21 are either for privately managed properties or properties being sold.

Though I have my first S8 coming up for about 2 years.   

[Mortitia]

I think you may be wrong there Richlist.  Under the new rules S21 cannot be issued during the 1st 4 months of the tenancy.

[Richlist]

I (& Grampa) are under the impression that the 4 month rule doesn't apply to a renewal tenancy with the same tenants and same property.

[Mortitia]

Sorry - missed the 'renewal' bit. Thought you meant a straight new 6 month AST.

I wouldn't renew just let go periodic.

[Carryon Regardless]

Most here know I am super cynical about how the legislation controlling us has evolved. The ambiguities over the years should be embarrassing to our bleaders.

The way I see the new S21 situation is that we are better to serve the notice when we really do want to use it for hoofing, rather than keeping one on file just in case as many did. As with the S8 now though we have to be ready for Shelter to defend with the disrepair trick. I expect Judges can apply discretion as to believing that we have had faults reported. "Adjourn for reports" became popular with S8's I've read, can we expect the same with S21's?

[Richlist]

I'm expecting the judges to eventually pick up on the fact that many landlords are failing to supply their tenants with a disrepair tempate.....as required by the new October 1st 2015 rules.

I can easily see that failure to supply the template alone will result in a tenant using it as an excuse for not having previously reported a disrepair to their landlord.

If you want to minimise risk then comply with the rules and provide a disrepair template.

[Grampa]

I see trouble ahead.  ♬ ♬

 

[Carryon Regardless]

Yes RL, mainly due to your comments regarding this, I now include a 'Report of Faults' sheet in my new style tenancy packs. Whenever I go for a repossession I expect Shelter to come to their rescue.

[Richlist]

Fortunately for me most of my professional, middle class  tenants will think that 'Shelter' is the name of the new wine bar or nightclub that's just opened in town.   ?

[Mortitia]

1 hour ago, Grampa said:

I see trouble ahead.  ♬ ♬

 

Not sure about the 'love and romance' bit.      Shelter seem to be benefiting from the glut of the young hopefuls holding a Law degree and no proper job ready to cut teeth on the unsuspecting landlord.

[Grampa]

I have had a couple of run ins with retired solicitors "working" for CAB and a trainee barister "specializing" in housing law. They didn't know their a_rs from their elbow. 

One CAB solicitor called to ask "what is this section 8 notice"

And the trainee barrister tried to wriggle out paying out as the guarantor for her son. She paid up when I start to get legal on her.

Though saying that a few years ago a legal aid solicitor bamboozled my S8 hearing over a technicality. Which I could have easily countered  if I was a bit better prepared. It didn't help him too much though as I had a "ready to go" S21 on the sidelines.      

[Mortitia]

You raise a good point here Grampa.

Most legal eagles are not aware of the new forms let alone the new rules and this type of 'helper' you describe can upset your case.  We need to be well informed to counter these irritants.