Accessing Lodgers Accomodation

[GrosAve]

Hello there,

My mother's lodger has given 2 weeks notice that she is going to leave. She lives on the first floor of her house where she has a kitchen, bathroom, lounge and bedroom. We have a signed lodgers agreement in place. It isn't a self contained flat, she has access through the same door as my mother.

In the agreement it states: The Lodger must give access to the Landlords or his agents when reasonably requested for inspection, security or viewing reasons, and that they will give the lodger prior written or verbal notice in advance.

I emailed the lodger tonight to request that the area is cleaned and made available for my mother to show potential lodgers around and she has declined the request and said she would rather be there. She is out at work all day and we may have some daytime viewings and ths would restrict us to evenings only. She has said she is going to find out her rights tomorrow from the CAB and local council.

It's my understanding that she has to give us access if we give her reasonable notice.

Can anyone advise?

many thanks

Paul

[Richlist]

We have a signed lodgers agreement in place. It isn't a self contained flat, she has access through the same door as my mother.

The agreement you have in place is irrelevant......what counts is what legal arrangement is actually in place.

I would question your assertion that it isn't self contained accomodation. The lodger has all their own facilities and presumably none are shared and using the same front door changes nothing in my opinion. This is an important material point as a landlord should NOT enter self contained accomodation without first obtaining the tenants permission.

Does your mother have normal access to the lodgers rooms for cleaning & laundry ?

[GrosAve]

No my mother doesn't access the lodgers rooms for cleaning & laundry. The lodger uses my mothers kitchen to do her laundry.

So if the signed agreement is irrelevant, does that mean it servers no purpose?

If the lodger dosn't agree to viewings when she isn't there does that mean we have to base our viewings for when she is there only?

[Richlist]

You can have a contract/ agreement that says virtually anything you like but it doesn't mean its vallid or legal.

You'll find out today what CAB/ local council think.. My opinion is its self contained........other may have a different opinion.

Think of the tenants position.......they don't want someone else in their rooms when they are not present and that seems entirely reasonable to me. It may be a problem for you/ your mother but they are paying rent and expect privacy....... I'd side with them on that issue.

[Carryon Regardless]

For the T to be a lodger, that is rent a room or sharing the LL's house they must be sharing facilities such as kitchen and bathroom.

In properties of multiple occupation T's most often share a front door but are still independent T's.

While this T uses the LL's kitchen she does have her own. I have the opinion that this lodger is an assured Shorthold Tenant and has the rights of such a T.

I feel you need advice to clarify the status of this T to avoid the possibility of claims of harassment and illegal eviction. You really don't want that bother.

[GrosAve]

Richlist & Cor,

Thank you very much for your advice and I can see things alot clearer now I have calmed down. If I put myself in her position I wouldn't like people walking through my rooms either without me present. I have told her we will respect her privacy and not show people round unless she is in.

One point i need to look at is both of you would view this as an Assure Shorthold Tenacy. I also have a flat I rent out as an AST but I thought this was more of a lodger. I need to revisit the agreement and consider making it an AST. Also I'm concerned that an agreement is signed by both parties is worthless! What would make it worthwhile and does an AST hold any more value?

Regards,

Paul

[Richlist]

Don't confuse my unqualified opinion with legal fact. I'm just applying logic......which doesn't necessarily mean its correct. I think you would do well to get some professional advice regarding the correct agreement to be used in your particular / unique situation.

Most of us on here let whole properties to tenants using an AST and where there can be no confusion/ question as to the correct agreement to use.

I've trawled through some of my books to see if I can find a reference to your unique situation......without success.

In your shoes I'd spend £50 for some legal advice.......just make sure you see a solicitor who specialises in this type of work.

Good luck.

[Chestnut]

Agree with Richlist about viewings - I have found quite normal for tenants to wish to be in - and even to refuse viewings until vacated.

Whatever a contract states there's nothing you can do. At that point the last thing you want is for departing tenant to be upset. Your property can be easily trashed in a moment of anger.

I don't know about AST question. Get some good professional advice.

[Mortitia]

I agree with the others on viewings but I would argue this is a lodger arrangement as services such as electric, water etc are from main house supply and therefore a sharing of facility.

[Richlist]

Good point Mortitia.....that raises further questions in my mind.....here are a coupe of them:.

* Whats the council tax situation ?.....eg does a lodger in these circumstances mean loss of single person discount etc.

* Whats the planning consent situation ie self contained accomodation.

[Mortitia]

Single person discount for council tax would be lost. Lodger rent is (can't remember how much - but tax free so would compensate.)

Planning not needed for lodger unless major alterations and needing building regs. In this case they are letting existing.

For lodger no gas safety certificate needed if everything gas is off the house circuit but for an AST in a self contained separate dwelling there is a requirement.

[Guest Antonio]

I think the lodger agreement should be update by the consulting with lodger and make the request of inspection approve in 24 hours.