luzico Posted October 25, 2012 Report Share Posted October 25, 2012 My tenant called me saying that the kitchen wall cabinet came off the wall hitting her head and everything that she had on the cabinet was smashed to the floor. I went to the flat the following day with a builder, accessed the situation: top wall plugs and screws came off the wall but the cabinet didn't hit the floor as it was held by the chimney breast. All her belongings (from inside the cabinet) were still on the floor (18 hours later). We secured the cabinet to the wall and it's now all ok. As soon as I finished the job, tenant says she wants compensation for the material loss, physical injury: lump in the head (allegedly, not visible), headache and for having being unable to work. Also says that her boyfriend had to take the day off too to stay with her due to medical recommendation (head injury person mustn't stay alone), etc... I have no landlord insurance. Options are: 1- Ignore her claim and say that I'm responsible for that as I had not been negligent (no report of cabinet loose or anything) 2- Offer to pay for material loss only (Am I making myself liable in this case and she can come back asking for more because of headache that never go away and so on?) 3- Go legal and spend money on solicitors (either way) plus money on her claim (in case I lose) Sorry if I'm being too naive. I've just became a landlord 5 months ago. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richlist Posted October 25, 2012 Report Share Posted October 25, 2012 What actually happened ? * Was the cabinet not fixed tightly to the wall ? * Were the wrong fixings used ? * Was it overloaded ?. * Was the tenant hanging on the cabinet when it failed ? * etc etc * What was your builders comments on the reason for it falling off the wall ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luzico Posted October 25, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 25, 2012 What actually happened ? * Was the cabinet not fixed tightly to the wall ? * Were the wrong fixings used ? * Was it overloaded ?. * Was the tenant hanging on the cabinet when it failed ? * etc etc * What was your builders comments on the reason for it falling off the wall ? The property was fully refurb. previous to the tenant coming in. The tenant has been at the property for the last 5 months. The tenant never informed me about any problems with the cabinet. The builder said it had the correct wall plugs and screws (4). Was it overloaded? We don't know. She would say no, obviously. My builder secured the same cabinet to the same wall but using more wall plugs and screws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richlist Posted October 26, 2012 Report Share Posted October 26, 2012 So the refurb work on the kitchen 5 months ago was guaranteed by the installers ? Kitchen cabinets don't fall off walls unless they are defective, aren't fitted properly or they are overloaded. Get a report from your repair guy.....he only needs to write on his invoice to you....saying that the original fixings appeared adequate and there was no obvious reason for failure/ or his opinion of the cause of failure. Can you claim from your insurance ?......cost of repair/ third party claim etc ? Can your tenant claim from their insurance.......cost of cupboard contents/ injuries sustained ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luzico Posted October 26, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 26, 2012 So the refurb work on the kitchen 5 months ago was guaranteed by the installers ? Kitchen cabinets don't fall off walls unless they are defective, aren't fitted properly or they are overloaded. Get a report from your repair guy.....he only needs to write on his invoice to you....saying that the original fixings appeared adequate and there was no obvious reason for failure/ or his opinion of the cause of failure. Can you claim from your insurance ?......cost of repair/ third party claim etc ? Can your tenant claim from their insurance.......cost of cupboard contents/ injuries sustained ? I can definitely ask my builder to write me a letter. I haven't got landlord insurance. I only pay buildings insurance to the freeholder. My T says she does have insurance. Does it mean that her insurance company will try to get the money from me and/or my builder? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melboy Posted October 26, 2012 Report Share Posted October 26, 2012 I can definitely ask my builder to write me a letter. I haven't got landlord insurance. I only pay buildings insurance to the freeholder. My T says she does have insurance. Does it mean that her insurance company will try to get the money from me and/or my builder? My view: Your tenant has to prove faulty workmanship of cupboard fitting leading to the "accident". It's an "accident" therefore She should claim on her own insurance for damages if she cannot prove negligence by a 3rd party. Did she go to casualty?.......No.....therefore no serious injury can be proven by her by way of a Doctor's report. Who overloaded the cupboard? What was on top of the cupboard? Why did she take 18 hours to pick up the items when a photo would have been sufficient? Sounds like scam in the making to me! You will be hearing from "Injury Lawyer's For You" very shortly. Mel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luzico Posted October 26, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 26, 2012 My view: Your tenant has to prove faulty workmanship of cupboard fitting leading to the "accident". It's an "accident" therefore She should claim on her own insurance for damages if she cannot prove negligence by a 3rd party. Did she go to casualty?.......No.....therefore no serious injury can be proven by her by way of a Doctor's report. Who overloaded the cupboard? What was on top of the cupboard? Why did she take 18 hours to pick up the items when a photo would have been sufficient? Sounds like scam in the making to me! You will be hearing from "Injury Lawyer's For You" very shortly. Mel. Would it be better for me, in order to keep things running smooth, to go through the items I collected from the flat, estimate their value and offer her a discount in the next rent? If I do that, should I ask her to sign a document stating that she won't claim anything else or by doing this I am accepting liability? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chestnut Posted October 26, 2012 Report Share Posted October 26, 2012 "items I collected from the flat" ??? If items belong to tenant then return them immediately (but keep a note of them). Otherwise it looks too much as though you are intending to make an offer. You have promptly repaired the property - that's good. If the tenant persists about a claim ask them to itemise in writing the values of all their material losses, plus health points, visit to casualty, doctors certificate etc., with proof of amounts, as Mel advises. Also ask in writing for description of events (what tenant was doing) leading up to immediately before the cupboard fell. (I would expect a faulty installation to come loose immediately it was loaded - long before five months of use.) You would need all this information if you were to make a claim on your own building insurance (which should include fitted kitchen units), and to check against your liabilities on your tenancy agreement. If/when you get a figure, you then have something on which to base a possible goodwill offering instead, if you, as any landlord might, feel inclined to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mortitia Posted October 27, 2012 Report Share Posted October 27, 2012 I agree with Mel on this and suspect a scam. About 2 months ago a tenant in a property I manage who claimed similar over a fitted wardrobe door. She maintained the door suddenly broke off 3 hinges, hit her on the head and dented a wall. She wanted compo. I asked if she had a witness or went to casualty or sought medical advice - no she didn't but she said she did phone a friend to report the incident - totally irrelevant. I dismissed her claim entirely saying that 3 hinges were unlikely to break simultaneously if the wardrobe was being used correctly - she was in the notice period and she went without further hassle. 'Full and final settlement' is a minefield IMO and leaves door open for further action. Recently I have attended 5 separate hearings on a case over this wording and each County Court judge had a differing opinion - the last one did not find in my favour that I had paid someone in full and final settlement. I would suggest you don't make an offer in that manner. Hope this helps Mortitia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chestnut Posted October 28, 2012 Report Share Posted October 28, 2012 'Full and final settlement' is a minefield IMO and leaves door open for further action........ Thanks for correcting me Mortitia! Having checked it out, I have deleted this bit of advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keggy Posted October 29, 2012 Report Share Posted October 29, 2012 Personally i would get a copy of the cupboard installation instructions and compare the recommended number and type of fixings with those used by the original installer, not just on this cupboard but on all the ones that have been installed. Assuming that the cupboard was installed correctly i would write to the tenant stating that having investigated the installation you do not beleive that the cupboard (or you) were at fault. I would also point out that cupboards are not designed to be filled unreasonably and check that they haven't put excessive weight into it, if they have then they should be liable for the cost of repair. If the tenant challenges you (particularly if they go down the legal route) you'll need to prove that you have acted responsibly. If on the other hand you find that the installer has used too few fixings, fixings that are too small, or drilled the holes too big for the rawl plugs/screws used, then whilst you are responsible you will be able to claim any costs against the installer for their poor/dangerous work. NB. Whilst you may have a good relationship with the original installer and trust them implicitly, i would use another qualified kitchen fitter to check the original installation. That way you are able to demonstrate that you have taken reasonable steps to ensure that the house is safe for the tenant to occupy. Unless you have installed the cupboards yourself you personally should not be liable - its either the installer you used for inadequate installation or the tenant for mis-use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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