Where to start?

[kenrich]

Could be a long post so beware.

About 2 years I was attacked just walking down a street for no reason at all.

Actually have no memory of it, just remember waking ip in hospital a few days later.

Ever since my memory has been a total loss and had to give working.

During this time I have had a property that I own and couldn't manage with not being able to work or concentrate for any long period so basically bury my head in the sand most of the time.

A friend of a friend said they would rent it off me until i was better, only expected it to be about 6 months but never did really recover so just let her stay, everything has been fine until the last few months where she hasnt been paying the full amount or even let you know that she is short so you would be able to find the rest from somewhere else. She has now said she is moving out, 2nd time in 3 months but seems serious this time. Since looking into all this, I now know you need Consent to Let, which I honestly never knew about until the last 2 days. The house is in quite a state as well, mostly just dirty and needs repainting but I can get it back to a good standard in a month,

In the meantime I have picked up quite a bit and now live with my partner but we will have noway to pay the full mortgage whilst the house would be empty to sell it, or contact NRAM to try get Consent to Let but im worried without working full time that they would refuse it but currently mortgage is £488 per month and had been renting out for £600 per month as that is the average in my area. Im currently trying to setup my own web design business so I can work from home on my own hours when I will be able too.

So questions are:

Would NRAM be able to reduce payments until house was sold

or

Would they consider Consent to Let whilst im out of work?

Oh one more thing, I never gave the girl a tenancy agreement or took a bond (idiot) or even a months rent in advance. Is their a form or letter I can get her to sign to say was resposible for all bills from date she moved in to date she moves out?

I really am sorry about this totally disjointed post but just had to get it out my head which is not working very well the last few days.

[Carryon Regardless]

It seems irrelevant to worry about not having permission to rent to the existing T if she's on her way.

Gaining permission for the next is best left till you have possession again inmo. If they grant permission is their choice. It's likely they will up the interest rate a little to cover the increased risk. There could well be admin charges that could be substantial if they prefer to change the style of mortgage. Some might depend on your payment history.

It's common for people relocating for work to let their property for a period.

You can often negotiate reduced payments or even payment holidays, but this may affect your credit rating. Ultimately if you 'aint got it they 'aint gonna get from you so there is a business intelligence in working with you for the best result. If they only see a situation that doesn't have recovery they might prefer to repossess, eventually.

They, any you, might want to consider that your property insurance covers rental.

It's a bit late to ask for a concession from the existing T regarding the responsibility of utilities and Council Tax. The fact that, I assume, She has been paying these and has accounts in her name is good demonstration of understanding. Do you expect her to not pay on departure ?

Try to obtain a statement of surrender when you T does depart, without going into notice periods, that would show a date of tenancy termination. Giving these organisation Her forwarding address can get them off your back if need be.

To reduce your void period you might consider having works done while She still occupies, with Her consent.

[kenrich]

Option I would prefer would be to sell, but house is probably only worth what mortgage is for pray its not negative. But would really need to be able to pay half the amount of mortgage to be able to stand a chance of having it on the market for a considerable time.

Getting Consent to Let would get me breathing space until either the market picked up or so we could save more to have it empty to sell in the future.

I have a very bad feeling she is gonna try do a runner. I called over yesterday to get a date she is moving out and she just stuttered saying ermmm 3 weeks, so I said I need an actual day as I need to get the keys back and have someone come straight in to clean and decorate the house and garden as I know she is not going to do it.

She still owes last months rent, plus £100 off month before and £80 off month before that so im really worried about her leaving bills and me being held responsible for them.

With not have a tenancy agreement to prove she lived their for a period of time I was just wanting to be able to get a letter with a list of Utilities and Phone, council ect to say she was responsible. My girlfriends mother a few years ago had got her tenant to sign one and it saved her bacon with a few companies. She has already told me SKY are after her for £110 and she's not gonna pay them.

Honestly if i could sell the house and just make enough to cover fees and mortgage id be ecstatic, I honestly don't know how landlords cope. (I guess their way better equipped for this stuff than me but reading forum's on the internet it seems like an absolute nightmare of a profession.

End of the day if NRAM dont or cant help then im not gonna try fighting them, they can take it. Just shame it will destroy any chance of me and my girlfriend getting a joint mortgage in the future.

[kenrich]

I have drafted a letter for her to sign to say she is leaving, would this be suitable?

I am writing to give notice on the propertylisted below.

ADDRESS

I will be moving out on 21^stAugust 2012 and will be available for

a walk around to check the property isand hand back the keys at 5pm.

[Carryon Regardless]

Notice of Tenancy Termination

Tenant/s

Property

I the above named Tenant give notice of intention to terminate the tenancy for the above named property.

I understand that it is my responsibility to pay all due monies

to Landlord, service providers, and local council charges for the above property

and be responsible for the security of the property

and be bound by the terms of the latest tenancy agreement entered into for the named property

up to completion of the notice period and correct surrender of the property to the Landlord.

I understand that the property cannot be considered as surrendered to the Landlord

until all belongings of the Tenant have been removed from the property unless otherwise agreed

in writing by the Landlord.

No persons shall be held financially accountable for the disposal of contents that remain within the property

following the date the property is returned to the possession of the Landlord.

Vacant inspection of the property shall be carried out by the Landlord or his agent

prior to calculation of final account.

The property shall be returned to Landlords possession from

Date

Time

My future intended address will be

Post Code

Tenant Sign

Date Tenant Sign

Date

Witness Print Name

Witness Sign

Date

Witness Address

Post Code

Please give address and phone number of current utility providers Return To Electricity Gas

LL Name

LL Address

Tel : Mob :

[Carryon Regardless]

Sorry the above doesn't copy well, it's format is all over the place.

This is what I present to T's. Sometimes they complete it and return. There is nothing that says they must, it's just a hope.

[kenrich]

Thanks for that! Thats the kind of thing I was looking for.

Only point is "and be bound by the terms of the latest tenancy agreement entered into for the named property" will this still be applicable if their was no tenancy agreement.?

I really do appreciate all your help, trying to take all this info in with half a brain is a nightmare for me, keep setting off panic attacks.

Just rang a local Estate Agent to try get the property valued and a rental value incase I attempt to get NRAM to Consent to let and they gave me prices for fully managed service of 12.5% of rental income per month plus 1 months rent + vat for finding a tenant. Gonna ring a few more to see if it's worth doing.

I tip my hat to you if being a Landlord is your full time job.

[kenrich]

one more stupid question, would I be able to be the Witness on it?

[Carryon Regardless]

Just delete as inappropriate. As there is no AST they can't be bound by it. If signed it may have some value if required to demonstrate to utilities that it's not your responsibility.

A good A can reduce the worry. But as you are still responsible and they are just acting on your instruction if a bad 'un gets it wrong it's still your problem.

I used to worry a lot more than I do now, the head can go round in circles and legislation just causes it to spin faster.

Nowadays I'm a born again alcoholic and much happier with life.

[Carryon Regardless]

Don't treat my little DIY put together sheet as gospel. More than anything it's designed to remind the T of their reasonable responsibilities, getting them to stand by them is a different matter.

If they feel there is some legal responsibility in filling out the details, as you seem to, I've won.

In general I give to them, my contact details are there for return, if there is opportunity they can give direct to me.

I give to them blank, as is usually their understanding of life, if I don't see it again so what. I do have a tenancy agreement that lets me off the hook for most responsibilities though, in theory.

[kenrich]

haha glad you still mange to keep a sense of humour. I haven't had a drink for 2 years as it was people outside a pub that attacked me, wouldn't care I was only on my way to McDonalds after work but got taken away by ambulance rather than myself getting a takeaway.

Reading up though the last few days, it seems the government make it really hard to be a Landlord, obviously their are some bad ones and always will be for for the honest ones it seems the tenants rights are so far greater than the landlords it makes you wonder why people would venture into it.

My girlfriend works for the local council and they had a meeting a few weeks back to tell them about the new Universal Credit System and that how they are no longer going to pay any landlords direct with housing benefit from April 2013. Can see this getting very messy for landlords who take on DSS tenants.

Just reading through what you certificates you need to rent out houses.

Energy Efficiency - I would Need

CP12? - Gas cert I have

I seem to have read that you do not need an Electrical Certificate but could be better for yourself.

[Carryon Regardless]

Richlist has some extensive lists of do's and don'ts that are worth searching out here. While they don't fit everyone's real world they have value.

Being a clumsy LL can be a very expensive and stressful experience. You are having a small taste of a not best situation. The more you read the more you'll wish you hadn't, until it goes t*ts up then you'll wish you had been fore warned. The best places for that sort of knowledge are such as this. Remember though well meaning, we are in the main just keyboard experts, it costs us nowt if we send you off in the wrong direction.

Why do we venture into this ? Well many are accidental LL's like you, many more thought it was a good idea at the time (up to 2008). It's interesting to listen (or read) of those that like the bit of power they perceive they will have. They wish, as they learn we are becoming little more than social LL's the opinion changes.

EPC yes, bloody pointless I've not heard of a T asking to see one yet.

Annual Gas Cert a must.

Electrically, like the whole property, you may be required to demonstrate you provide a safe environment in the event of an incident. Electrically an inspection cert should do that.

That covers the criminal liability, otherwise insure your civil liabilities for if a T's mate falls off the front step p*ssed.

[LLAW96]

What a shame. I will concentrate on the mortgage side as Cor has set out the position quite well re the tenancy. lets start from the beginning, your lender did not sell you a buy to let product so they will be annoyed that you have let the property out without consent. You may be able to get retrospective consent but there will be an increase in the interest rate to reflect the position. Currently lenders are being extremely pragmatic when it comes to situation like yours. They will not issue proceedings lightly and indeed have to follow a protocol before doing so. The basic position with mortgages is that you have to the end of the term to pay the loan and any arrears. In this case you do not seem to have any arrears so your negotiations (if any) will be around either extending the term of the mortgage and or interest only payments (repayment mortgages only) or secondly renting the property out (your preferred option). I think you be surprised by your lenders response given the current climate they have little option. The negative equity is a more difficult issue, if you have negative equity you need to have an idea of your potential loss. Thereafter you will be able to make a judgment call on whether you can hang on for inflation/price rises to kick in or by renting out your home you can reduce your liability. There are a number of websites which provide details of selling prices check them for prices obtained on your road. Finally remember that a mortgage deed is a speciality contract as such the lender has 12 (not 6) years to pursue you for any shortfall.

[kenrich]

Thanks for the reply LAW, it's a mess at the minute, im even scared to ring NRAM for some payment holidays to give me time to do the property backup to my standards and to try sell it.

I think id be closer to getting what I owe back on the property or if negative by a very small amount. I have never missed or been a day late with a mortgage payment since I bought it in 2005.

Think everything just spiralled out of control and at first thought it would only be 6 months to recover and get back on my feet but still have major downturns but was getting closer to my normal self lately and had just started doing graphic design again for myself, (slow at the minute though) and was im busy working on

launching another self employment business which should do well as nobody else is even doing it at them oment but will take at least 6 months to get going and making profit.

Im already on interest only mortgage which I switched to just after getting put in hospital.

I have a friend who is quite high up in what was Northern Rock and they have a contact in NRAM who have said not to tell them at minute your in difficulties as they are not being very helpful to people any more. Still waiting on some more news tomorrow off them as best thing/way to proceed.

Just dont want to be made bankrupt or have house repossessed and have no chance of us buying a larger house in the future.

I have arranged an estate agent to look at the property tomorrow for Valuation to sell or rent and then try approach NRAM early next week or Friday this week.

[Carryon Regardless]

Not that I would ever suggest you do something naughty but I have an idea what I would do.

I would wait until the property is back in your possession before approaching the lender. If then asked what the status is it would be correct to say it is being decorated. it would no longer be rented.

Tentatively exploring options isn't unreasonable. Asking about possibilities of renting while relocating for employment should get you the answers you want. It seems you already know you'll come under fire if you declare problems.

The greater risk I see at the moment is not being insured correctly, if there is a serious issue with the property a claim might be rejected.

Not having a gas inspection cert could of course be very serious, a few quid can sort that.

No EPC, well as much as I resent the waste, again a few quid sorts that and it's valid for 10 years, so why not ?

[kenrich]

Good points COR, think im just trying to get everything sorted asap but will probs be better waiting until tenant is out plus should have a clearer head and better options to think of.

I have the Gas Cert but not the Energy one, the energy one is a joke! HAd to install a new combi system in January. Insurance defo a problem, get her out and try gain consent then sort insurance out properly.

If I am gonna rent it I want it all sorted and above board so I get no comebacks and will not accept DSS person as she was one but could just keep saying their messing with her claim.

Not out of the ###### yet by any means but feel a lot better being able to get advice off you and LAW and reading other posts on here, very interesting subjects but one I wish I could be watching and not being involved in.

Just praying she pays all of last months rent on friday as she promised.....i'll hold my breath!

[kenrich]

Quick Update:

Still undecided to try sell house or get Consent to Let. Really not wanting to go through any of this again with bad tenants.

Been trying to contact the tenant for the last 4 days to no avail. They had promised last months rent to be paid on Friday but never happened then said defo Monday but nothing and no contact.Went over to the property this morning to try catch her but all blinds and curtains have been closed all day and night, looked through letterbox and porch seems empty, (normally kids bikes and shoes all over.I now believe she is planning to just do a runner oweing 2.5 months rent. To be honest i have given up on that money for now but really need to get the keys back so i can secure the house asap as go onholiday this Tuesday and obviously wont be able to check the property out or chase her for keys.

Is their anything I can doin the mean time as I honestly believe the property is either abandoned now or will be in the next week.

[LLAW96]

The issue of abandonment has been thrashed out on this forum on a number of occasions. Needless to say it is a minefield, if you are not 100% sure she has vacated you should proceed to serve your s.8 notice with a view to issuing a claim for possession in the county court. She (like you intend to be) may be on holiday, visiting sick relatives etc etc etc, the list is endless. You will just need to appoint someone to act as your agent whilst you are away. I take it she is not responding to telephone calls or answering the door, so you cannot confirm the position directly.

[kenrich]

Getting no response off phone calls or texts. Sent another text this morning giving 24hrs notice to gain access to property to get electrics checked as through the letterbox i could see a light switch hanging off the wall so this could be dangerous and needs a professional to look at it asap. I dont have a spare set of keys so would need to get a locksmith out. I was going to go see the Police and ask them to be their as witness to having to gain access to get electrics fixed and to che k for abandonment.

Was told off someone to put something in side of door to see if she has been going back.

I have now resigned myself to her doing a bunk but just wish she would have decency hand keys back or get someone to do it for her.

Heads killing off stress now.

[kenrich]

Just been upto to house and spoke to a few of the neighbours and they have told me she moved out at weekend with 4 van loads and they have also told me her new address, well the street she has moved to, they were not sure of the door number but that will be easy to find. They have said they will give statements to say they seen her moving all her belongings out.

Do i still have to jump through ridiculous hoops to get my property back now or can i get the locks changed now.

Also put a note through door and another text stating the electrics are of concern and need looked at urgently.

[Carryon Regardless]

There is always risk when taking a property back without a surrender, documentation preferred.

Ambiguously when you just take possession this way you might be called on to demonstrate reasonable grounds to believe She has abandoned.

A little more of a concern with your situation if the T requires access to 'her property' after the locks have been changed you should accommodate and even refit old locks or give new keys. You won't be around for that so beware of the professional T situation setting you up.

With locks changed there should be a prominent notice detailing how access can be gained, an open invitation for the corrupt.

In your shoes I would put the effort into having a peaceful face to face, try and get a signed document of surrender. I forget but if you have a G'tor involving them, with reminders of responsibility, can work wonders here.

In theory She is still T ?? So you could be accused of harassment but to be honest I could see advantage of creating a fuss at the new place, hope the Police are called, and also hope She makes a statement that She has left the old place.

The correct way is to leave your property as is, and using a S8 or S21 go for repossession, yeh right.

[LLAW96]

Oh and speak to your local private tenancy officer at the council put them in the picture and let them know what you intend to do.

[kenrich]

reading up on the subject earlier, oweing last 2 months rent ans also arrears off previous months and neighbours seeing her move out I thought would be enough. Surely to claim housing benefit on her new home would mean her having to give them dates and information on when she left my home?

Situation is unreal how this can be all in her favour. She wont get in contact as i was gonna say give me keys back now and sign the document saying you have left property on such a day and ill not chase you for rent.

The law is an ass.

I'll try her at new property tonight, see if that gets me anywhere.

[Melboy]

If you have gas at the property and you are fairly certain that the tenant has disappeared then you may need to enter the property because there is a smell of gas being reported. You call Transco slip the Guy a Tenner and in you go!

Under UK Gas laws you can enter the property under any emergency situation to cut-off the supply if necessary. In form the police afterwards of what you have had to do and they will log the event.

In the event of you being caught out as a lying cheating barsteward of a Landlord by the Courts in the event of any future prosecution you would be liable to a prison sentence of at least 25 years.

The tenant who has failed to pay you any rent as the landlord and done a runner will be awarded compensashun for hurt feelings and avoidable homelessness.

Think I am joking? this has actually happened......not the 25 years jail sentence true.....but the landlord was fined for carrying out the above scenario.

Mel.

[kenrich]

I think once the idiot realises i have found her at the new address she will hand them over. Cant see what she thinks she can gain by being an absolute knob.

Neighbours were very happy she is going so at least some people got good nes today.

ill be happy when i have keys and im sunbathing for 2 weeks, then back to gut the place...