Statutory Periodic Tenancy

[Smokey01]

Hi everyone.

What happens if my tenant stays after the agreed tenancy end date, then leaves 10 days later without advising the LL of when this was due to happen, and simply leaves the keys inside the property ?

Landlord then checks and finds keys 2 days later. Is tenant effectively in an SPT and in which case could the LL effectively claim rent owing even though they now have the keys back and without knowing if the tenant has a copy of those keys ?

When does the SPT legally end, as some people are saying the LL has effectively taken possession by taking the keys back, but others support the view that the tenant has still entered an SPT and therefore the rules associated with payment for a SPT apply regardless.

I would really like a definitive response to this before I apply o the small claims courts.

Thanks in advance.

[Guest caravanj]

Potential minefield time!!

The LL doesn't have any proof that his T intends to terminate their tenancy. The fact that the place might appear empty with keys left inside ain't proof that they've quit & as soon as the LL changes the locks & re-lets the property, up pops the T with a whopping law suit against the LL for £ thousands of compensation & possible criminal charges against the LL as well.

The LL shouldn't even have removed the keys from the property since this could be construed as an illegal eviction.

The LL must get a written statement from the T that the T has in fact relinquished the property & failing this then the LL must get possession via the courts.

[Smokey01]

OK in this case the LL does have proof that the tenant advised the agent that she had left the keys in the property, although she had been asked by the LL to leave the keys at the agent which was ignored, and they have subsequently advised the agent of there desire to leave etc and paid what they deemed to be the rate owed for this rent which they feel was a fair daily rate. However this was not agreed by the LL and as such now feels the rates applied to a SPT apply...?

However the tenant did not advise which date they would be officially leaving but has not subsequently paid any further rent, and removed all of their belongings, so their own actions pretty clearly show that they intended to leave, but just failed to say when. This is where the SPT starts I believe and therefore my question still stands.

[Guest caravanj]

OK in this case the LL does have proof that the tenant advised the agent that she had left the keys in the property, although she had been asked by the LL to leave the keys at the agent which was ignored, and they have subsequently advised the agent of there desire to leave etc and paid what they deemed to be the rate owed for this rent which they feel was a fair daily rate. However this was not agreed by the LL and as such now feels the rates applied to a SPT apply...?

However the tenant did not advise which date they would be officially leaving but has not subsequently paid any further rent, and removed all of their belongings, so their own actions pretty clearly show that they intended to leave, but just failed to say when. This is where the SPT starts I believe and therefore my question still stands.

Personally I wouldn't accept anything that wasn't written & signed by the T. The least you need is a written statement from the managing agents that they deem the T to have relinquished the property. Whether or not you pursue the T for a few days rent is up to you but again on a personal level I wouldn't even bother working out whether an SPT applies just for the possibility of getting a few quid which is why I haven't read up on the rules relating to an SPT.

Hopefully another member will answer your question regarding an SPT.

[Carryon Regardless]

While it is true that the T could make claim you do have reasonable, and demonstrable, cause to believe the property has been surrendered.

With support of the LA the T would look like a pillock if they now tried a claim.

You have entered the property on the understanding that the property is surrendered, I hope you have witnesses to show no belongings were left, or at least they have no value you could be screwed for.

The T has given notice but only verbally, they have expressed their desire not to return. I would now pursue rents till the last day of a tenancy period following the current tenancy period.

You have a responsibility to try and re-let, you are not, by law, allowed to take rents from 2 sources for the same period.

If you start renovation works the T could then argue you have possession for your benefit, no rents due.

If you are repairing their damage they owe rent.

[Smokey01]

Thanks for the replies, I am going to pursue as its not just a few quid but many £1000s.

T has actually stated she has paid for what she believes to be rent due for the extra days she stayed so hasn't got a leg to stand on re defence that tenancy not over, plus emails and phone transcripts from agent to support as she dropped of a cheque to pay for this "rent".

My stance is that the letter of the law has not been applied and it is an SPT up until the property was re-let.

[Guest caravanj]

Thanks for the replies, I am going to pursue as its not just a few quid but many £1000s.

T has actually stated she has paid for what she believes to be rent due for the extra days she stayed so hasn't got a leg to stand on re defence that tenancy not over, plus emails and phone transcripts from agent to support as she dropped of a cheque to pay for this "rent".

My stance is that the letter of the law has not been applied and it is an SPT up until the property was re-let.

I obviously misundertsood because your original post implied that your T owed you around 10 days plus a possible further month if the tenancy had rolled over into an SPT which I didn't expect to run into many £1000's.

[Grampa]

Could the tenant argue that they left on the last day of the fixed term? If so they havent done anything wrong by just dropping the keys through the letter box and if there is damage/rent arrears you chase in the normal way.

If there is no question that the tenant left after the fixed term it comes under the rules of a periodic tenancy unless you told/gave permission to the contray. So if periodic the tenant legally has to give one month notice that falls in line with the rent due day (or period stated in the tenancy agreement).

So (this is based on the assumsion there is no question that the tenant has vacated) the tenant can be chased for one full month of rent unless you re-let the property in that period.

If you are going to start chasing for rent owed start documenting dates/times and speak to neigbours to bring a case. Because if I was the tenant I would argue I left on the last day of the tenancy or was given permission to vacate on a certain day.

Accepting the keys does not end the tenancy it depends on the circumstances.

[Guest caravanj]

Could the tenant argue that they left on the last day of the fixed term? If so they havent done anything wrong by just dropping the keys through the letter box and if there is damage/rent arrears you chase in the normal way.

If there is no question that the tenant left after the fixed term it comes under the rules of a periodic tenancy unless you told/gave permission to the contray. So if periodic the tenant legally has to give one month notice that falls in line with the rent due day (or period stated in the tenancy agreement).

So (this is based on the assumsion there is no question that the tenant has vacated) the tenant can be chased for one full month of rent unless you re-let the property in that period.

If you are going to start chasing for rent owed start documenting dates/times and speak to neigbours to bring a case. Because if I was the tenant I would argue I left on the last day of the tenancy or was given permission to vacate on a certain day.

Accepting the keys does not end the tenancy it depends on the circumstances.

You're on the same page as me Grampa!!

Whilst I don't know the full circumstances I fail to see how even a couple of months rent can equate to 'many £1000's' which is what's now puzzled me.

My original reply was aimed at helping the poster to avoid the illegal eviction trap based on the information in the original post which has since changed somewhat.

I still stand by my advice to get a written & signed surrender by the T. There are a shed-load of reported cases where a LL has thought that a T has left the property but then gets sued.

[Carryon Regardless]

As I understand the story,

the T has informed the LA of the surrender and confirmed intent and dates by giving a cheque to cover the 'days' the T agrees to be liable for.

Assuming the value of the cheque confirms the number of days by rent applicable day rates the T has essentially made the case of claim by the L.

As the T has attempted to settle for days of possession beyong the fixed period the SPT is demonstrated.

The T however is incorrect with their understanding unless as Grampa says an alternative arrangement was reasonable to be understood.

An SPT must be terminated by the T with a 'minimum' of 1 months notice ending on the last day of a tenancy period.

A tenancy period can take some understanding but is usually not difficult to work out from the arrangements of the previous AST.

I attempt to aid understanding of principles, in truth the amounts don't concern me.

[Smokey01]

Thanks all, just to clarify the rent is over £4000 per month which is how it amounts to many thousands.

My understanding does appear to be clear as per yours and I will now pursue for rent owing as per a SPT.

Cheers.

[Carryon Regardless]

If that was my revenue then the amounts would concern me.

The most rent I charge is £545 pcm, not in the same league.

As I don't have to concern myself with this I may be off with my limited understanding here but, I believe there is a maximum amount chargeable for a tenancy to be AST. This could then affect notice requirements ??

As you use an LA I wouldn't expect this to have been overlooked so your £48k per year must be within limits.

Go get 'em, let us know how you get on cos then the beers on you, nice chap that you are .