Undercover Criminals: Unspent Criminal Convictions and Buy-to-Let Insurance

[Guest caravanj]

This is an important one & it's about time it was made mandatory for anyone with a criminal record to voluntarily declare an unspent criminal conviction or pending criminal charges.

My landlord insurance was very nearly invalidated because of this.

Since I don't live in the area I only found out about my T being banged up due to a tip-off because it made a big splash in the local newspaper due to the violence involved so I then searched 'The Law Pages' which gave full details of the case & I was able to inform my insurance company.

I've checked with the Ministry of Justice & the CRB & they've confirmed that there is no way of a landlord or referrencing agency being given any details of a T's criminal record.

The link below is for The Law Pages.

http://www.thelawpages.com/index.php

The link below is for the insurance article.

http://www.directlin...t-insurance.htm

[Mortitia]

When you manage your property from a distance there is always the risk that this sort of thing will happen.

So who are you blaming here? The tenant for not declaring he was a bad boy? LOL Was he credit checked and referenced.?

Getting someone to manage your property well or doing a good job yourself could be the answer.

Mortitia

[Guest caravanj]

Firms that do tenant referrencing have no means of checking whether or not a T has a criminal record, they are not entitled to make CRB checks so at present you'll never know unless your T tells you they have one.

The clue was in my first paragraph which is why I said it should be made mandatory for a T disclose a criminal record.

It's all very well to smugly think that you've done everything right but that's of no use when of your T's has got a criminal record you don't know about.

It's also of no use having a glowing T reference check if your T then commits an offence & gains a criminal record of which you are unaware because it doesn't hit the local paper.

Anyway since this is a help forum I posted this to help members who are less than perfect!!

[Carryon Regardless]

In our society the crim will have more rights and sympathy than the LL so this won't happen.

Then just suppose it did, the crim having the nature he / she has lies on your application, the best you could hope for is to repossess on a S8 dependant on Court discretion.

More likely by the time you are able to do this other reasons would be applicable anyway.

A good interview is favourite.

An application should show a crim has gone off radar for his 'holiday' period and raise concerns.

Then gut feeling has seen a few go no further with me, a part of that is because their demonstrated intelligence was demonstration enough.

[Guest caravanj]

In our society the crim will have more rights and sympathy than the LL so this won't happen.

Then just suppose it did, the crim having the nature he / she has lies on your application, the best you could hope for is to repossess on a S8 dependant on Court discretion.

More likely by the time you are able to do this other reasons would be applicable anyway.

A good interview is favourite.

An application should show a crim has gone off radar for his 'holiday' period and raise concerns.

Then gut feeling has seen a few go no further with me, a part of that is because their demonstrated intelligence was demonstration enough.

Yes I agree but no matter how good an interviewer you are you can't tell if a T's got a criminal record unless they tell you.

I started this topic to highlight the potential insurance problem that non-disclosure of a T's criminal record can cause, nothing else.

I've contacted the Association of British Insurers who've put me in touch with a member of their tribunal who's going to have a look so I'll report if & when I get an answer.

[Guest caravanj]

I've received something of a reply but basically the ABI recommend that all landlords & agents have a written questionnaire that includes questions about a T's criminal record or pending criminal charges & that the T is made to complete & sign the questionnaire. ( i.e. don't fill it in for them & just get them to sign it!! )

If a T with a criminal record lies about it then it is still down to the individual insurance company as to whether or not the policy is invalidated but at least the L can prove that they took all reasonable steps.

Not an ideal state of affairs because the most plausible, respectable, well-educated T can have a criminal record, otherwise there wouldn't be any conmen if a crook looked & acted like a crook.

[Carryon Regardless]

'IF' insurance companies are able to check the criminal record of a T in the event of claim and use this to deny the claim would this be considered an unfair term of contract if we don't have the means / right to check ??

It's just a thought as there are so many thing that if we put into a contract would be viewed as an 'unfair term'. Penalising for late payments for example, reasonable but apparently 'unfair' and so not enforceable.

[Guest caravanj]

'IF' insurance companies are able to check the criminal record of a T in the event of claim and use this to deny the claim would this be considered an unfair term of contract if we don't have the means / right to check ??

It's just a thought as there are so many thing that if we put into a contract would be viewed as an 'unfair term'. Penalising for late payments for example, reasonable but apparently 'unfair' and so not enforceable.

I don't think that insurance companies can do a CRB check & I suppose, realistically, there will be hundreds of claims that get paid that wouldn't be paid if the insurance company knew the full facts.

Direct Line Insurance flagged this up as potential problem which is why I've posted it as topic. If it saves just one L, from ending up with an invalidtated policy, like I very nearly did, then it will be worth it.

[Carryon Regardless]

I appreciate the thinking but don't see an answer.

Al I can see is the potential risk, that as you recognise in reality, is unavoidable.

In the event I then just consider the possibility of causing an insurance company to accept the liability.

Considering current climates and the power they have (an experienced legal dept) I can't say I would enjoy the prospect of such a battle, and the Ombudsman hasn't instilled me with confidence to date.

[Guest caravanj]

I appreciate the thinking but don't see an answer.

Al I can see is the potential risk, that as you recognise in reality, is unavoidable.

In the event I then just consider the possibility of causing an insurance company to accept the liability.

Considering current climates and the power they have (an experienced legal dept) I can't say I would enjoy the prospect of such a battle, and the Ombudsman hasn't instilled me with confidence to date.

Unfortunately that's the whole point of my topic insomuch as at the present time there isn't an answer but I felt that it's important to know that this potential pitfall exists.

[Guest caravanj]

I had a long discussion with a surveyor who's a member of some insurance tribunal & he said I'd raised a very valid point that he hadn't thought about until I raised it.

He did agree with my suggestion that a question about any unspent criminal records should be included on the tenant's application form & also the T's contract should include a requirement for the T to disclose any criminal conviction after the tenancy has started.

The LL would be entitled to ask this question since the LL has to be able to provide full disclosure to his/her insurers.

In the event of non-disclosure followed by a claim then it's still up to the individual insurance company as to whether or not they pay out so my advice would be for a LL to ask their insurance company what their policy would be on this issue.

[Richlist]

Can you explain to an idiot like me what adverse situation is likely to occour as a result of a tenants failure to disclose a criminal conviction ?

[Guest caravanj]

If you make a claim & the insurance investigator / assessor becomes aware of the T having a criminal record that the LL didn't declare then the insurance company may refuse to pay out under the rules of non-disclosure.

A large proportion of insurance company profits originate from non-payouts for claims rejected because they fail the non-disclosure test.

You only have to watch Watchdog or Ripoff Britain to see the potential danger highlighted by this topic.

[Richlist]

OK thanks.

Let me see if this is likely to affect me.

If you make a claim & the insurance investigator / assessor ........

I only have buildings insurance and rent guarantee insurance on the majority of my leasehold rental properties. I don't usually bother with contents insurance.

A claim on the buildings insurance which doesn't require any details of tenants or disclosure of tenant details is unlikely to be affected.

A claim on rent guarantee insurance is also unlikely to be affected as the insurers will only put insurance into affect when the applicant meets all of their application criteria.

Am I missing an important point.......or am I just not affected by this issue?

[Guest caravanj]

OK thanks.

Let me see if this is likely to affect me.

If you make a claim & the insurance investigator / assessor ........

I only have buildings insurance and rent guarantee insurance on the majority of my leasehold rental properties. I don't usually bother with contents insurance.

A claim on the buildings insurance which doesn't require any details of tenants or disclosure of tenant details is unlikely to be affected.

A claim on rent guarantee insurance is also unlikely to be affected as the insurers will only put insurance into affect when the applicant meets all of their application criteria.

Am I missing an important point.......or am I just not affected by this issue?

If you've got a policy that doesn't require you to declare your T's unspent criminal convictions then your less likely to have a problem than you would face if it had been a requirement to disclose. However, I don't know what your insurers list of assumed disclosures is.

As I said when I posted the original topic, the sole purpose was to flag up a potential problem highlighted by Direct Line who sell a range of LL insurance policies.

[Richlist]

OK, well, as I don't have any dealings with Direct Line and have never taken out landlord insurance I'll assume I am not affected.

Guess I'll find out if I ever have cause to make a claim.