Tenant has requested permission to have kittens in the property, but refuses to agree to our terms

[chickpea]

New tenant moved in May this year.

Property advertisement and AST state no pets with written permission of the landlord.

LA informed us that T has requested permission to have 2 kittens.

We replied that we would give permission, if the T agreed to a further deposit of £200, and to have the kittens de-flead regularly and the carpets cleaned at the end of the tenancy.

T replied that he wasn't happy to pay the extra deposit, as he has already paid a deposit equal to 6 weeks rent at the beginning of the tenancy.

We responded by saying that they were the terms under which we would give permission.

We have had no further contact from the T, but believe he is intending to go ahead with getting the kittens.

I know the OFT has a clause on unfair terms, regarding no pets rules in AST's, so I'm not sure if the T would be in breach of contract if he went ahead with having cats in the property.

Should we suck it up?

If not, what is the best way to tackle this issue?

AST ends on November 2nd.

[Mortitia]

When you produce you next tenancy agreement after it says 'no pets at the premises' put 'BUT CONSENT WILL NOT UNREASONABLY BE WITHELD'. The unreasonable bit would be not paying the pet bond and any other reason you might have - being on a main road, railway line or having a cat allergy yourself. The possibilities are endless.

Back to this situation. Tell tenant you are asking for a 'pet bond of £200' which is quite separate from the deposit - you keep it against damage ( and with 2 kittens there will be damage and it pays for carpet cleaning at end of tenancy).

My instinct in this case would be to Section 21 her and get a new tenant. Reason is she does not want to comply with your rules and the pets will wee, and poo all over the place. I love cats and am a constant re-homer of unwanted ones but I would not let tenants keep 2 cats. I have one tenant with 1 and they paid the 'pet bond'.

Non compliance over this will lead to other issues. Get in control now - you are the landlord.

Cheers

[chickpea]

When you produce you next tenancy agreement after it says 'no pets at the premises' put 'BUT CONSENT WILL NOT UNREASONABLY BE WITHELD'. The unreasonable bit would be not paying the pet bond and any other reason you might have - being on a main road, railway line or having a cat allergy yourself. The possibilities are endless.

Back to this situation. Tell tenant you are asking for a 'pet bond of £200' which is quite separate from the deposit - you keep it against damage ( and with 2 kittens there will be damage and it pays for carpet cleaning at end of tenancy).

My instinct in this case would be to Section 21 her and get a new tenant. Reason is she does not want to comply with your rules and the pets will wee, and poo all over the place. I love cats and am a constant re-homer of unwanted ones but I would not let tenants keep 2 cats. I have one tenant with 1 and they paid the 'pet bond'.

Non compliance over this will lead to other issues. Get in control now - you are the landlord.

Cheers

Thank you, Mortitia.

My initial reaction was to issue S.21,for exactly the reasons you have given - if the T is not going to comply over this, what else is he going to choose to ignore?

However, I wanted to make sure I wasn't over-reacting.

I will check, but it's possible that the AST does actually say what you've advised.

Who would hold the pet bond? Would it have to be held in conjunction with a specific pet clause, signed by us and the T, stating under what terms it would be returned?

[Melboy]

I think I am right in saying that most landlord's require additional funds to cover pets but having said that I haven't on one of my rentals but that was by mutual agreement before letting.

In this case I would say No........ there has to be a pet bond because you, the tenant, signed an agreement whereby no pets without permission and as Mortitia says 2 youngs kittens are going to cause a lot of problems.

[Richlist]

Hopefully your AST is only for 6 months, so your tenant could be gone by November. If not May 2015 is a long way off.

Perhaps having an S21 served on her will help her change her mind about paying the pet bond.

She definitely seems like trouble. In your shows I'd get rid asap. The world is full of top quality tenants who don't keep kittens

[chickpea]

I think I am right in saying that most landlord's require additional funds to cover pets but having said that I haven't on one of my rentals but that was by mutual agreement before letting.

In this case I would say No........ there has to be a pet bond because you, the tenant, signed an agreement whereby no pets without permission and as Mortitia says 2 youngs kittens are going to cause a lot of problems.

Thanks Mel.

As a cat owner myself, I know what damage they can do. Even as adults, our cats regularly vomit on the carpets, spill blood from their latest kill, have the occasional toileting accident etc.

We set the original deposit at 6 weeks rent, to cover any unpaid not covered by rent guarantee insurance and any cleaning/ repairs beyond fair wear and tear.

Obviously, pet damage goes beyond that.

What makes me annoyed is that our T is on £50k +, so it's not like £200 is going to break him. The fact that he is unwilling to put down a refundable deposit doesn't give me much faith that he's going to do his up most to keep the property in good repair, regarding the cats.

[chickpea]

Hopefully your AST is only for 6 months, so your tenant could be gone by November. If not May 2015 is a long way off.

Perhaps having an S21 served on her will help her change her mind about paying the pet bond.

She definitely seems like trouble. In your shows I'd get rid asap. The world is full of top quality tenants who don't keep kittens

Yes, 6 months AST, ending November.

That being so, if we issue the s21 now, am I right in thinking that we won't be able to start action to get him out until December 3 (2 months notice)?

[Richlist]

No, if you serve an S21(1)( within the fixed term and it ends after the fixed term then you can just give 2 months notice. It doesn't need to end on a rent day. You should add a few days to allow for posting. So if you issued an S21 tomorrow (25/9) you should ensure it expires 28th November.

Send X2 copies of the S21 to each person named on the AST....one copy with proof of posting , the other by recorded delivery.

The tenants should then leave on or before the expiry date.

All this is assuming you are in England or Wales, have an Assured Shorthold Tenancy Agreement (AST) and the deposit has been protected correctly.

[chickpea]

Thanks Richlist.

Yes, we're in Wales, and the deposit was protected and PI given correctly.

[Dave A]

Our experience of cats has been negative. The tenants would not open any windows as the cats never left the house. The knock on effect was condensation in living room and bedroom, with subsequent mould issues. Ultimately led to the tenants moving on. We do not allow pets anymore full stop.

Dave

[Grampa]

The question is are you as the landlord going to be commercially worst off by giving notice to this tenant. How much is 2-5 weeks of a empty period while you find new tenants going to cost you. Other than this cat issue are they good tenants?

The bottom line is, the tenant is responsible for any damage regardless if they have a pet or not or how much deposit you are holding. I take it you have a good signed inventory in place? Do you have a guarantor as well?

Another option could be to write to the tenant that the condition of having pets, is the property is professionally cleaned and the carpets are professionally cleaned and fumigated (can be done at the same time) at the end of the tenancy and the cost will be deducted from the deposit. Acceptance to these terms will be deemed agreed unless replied to within 10 days of this letter.

Also there is the consideration that the tenant may stay in the property for another 4 years+ as it isn't easy for tenants with pets to find another property and you would likely be looking at doing some decoration works anyway.

Or you just say no and put them on notice that they will be given notice if evidence of pets is found.

[chickpea]

The question is are you as the landlord going to be commercially worst off by giving notice to this tenant. How much is 2-5 weeks of a empty period while you find new tenants going to cost you. Other than this cat issue are they good tenants?

The bottom line is, the tenant is responsible for any damage regardless if they have a pet or not or how much deposit you are holding. I take it you have a good signed inventory in place? Do you have a guarantor as well?

Another option could be to write to the tenant that the condition of having pets, is the property is professionally cleaned and the carpets are professionally cleaned and fumigated (can be done at the same time) at the end of the tenancy and the cost will be deducted from the deposit. Acceptance to these terms will be deemed agreed unless replied to within 10 days of this letter.

Also there is the consideration that the tenant may stay in the property for another 4 years+ as it isn't easy for tenants with pets to find another property and you would likely be looking at doing some decoration works anyway.

Or you just say no and put them on notice that they will be given notice if evidence of pets is found.

It's hard to plot the potential loss of rent against potential damage to the property (and other losses we may incur as a result of having a tenant who's quite happy to flout the conditions of the tenancy agreement). Every single tenant we've had has left the house in less than ideal conditions - there is always cleaning required, always some degree of damage etc. The deposit as it stands allows for one months unpaid rent (we have RGI,but it doesn't cover the last month of a tenancy) plus a small amount for anything other than expected wear and tear.

The last tenants had a deposit equal to one month only. They left owing 2 months and with a carpet burn in the middle of the new bedroom carpet (deliberate),the house was filfthy and the garden was a tip, plus there was damage to the garden gate. Oh, and we had solicitor's fees to get them out.

Obviously, you can't be 100% sure of any tenant, but warning bells go off when a tenant shows that they actually have no intention of complying with the AST they signed - as others have said, the cat issue may be the thin end of the wedge.

It's a dilemma.

[Richlist]

Unfortunately for me I love cats, especially kittens. They are lovely balls of cuddly furry fun. My youngest son & his wife have one & I am continually buying little toys for it to play with. RIGHT, enough of the silly emotional stuff..... NOW down to business.

I have X2 approaches to cats:

1. In my rentals they are expressly forbidden. Anyone that gets one gets their marching orders .....that happens hardly ever. I don't go for increased deposit or special clauses cos they are all going to give me more work & hassle. I'm even prepared for long voids between tenancies whilst I wait for my ideal tenant to come along......one without pets.

2. In my own house I have found that electronic cat repellent devices work very well. I fitted two (battery operated, rechargable) devices in my garden. One guarding my hot tub, (the cats used to sleep on the top cos it was warm) and another guarding a small playground area I have for the grandkids. Since fitting them I've had no evidence of cats in the garden.....highly recommended. Anyone interested can get them from Amazon web site about £15 each. In addition I have a PIR operated water sprinkler protecting planted areas that the cats absolutely hate . They only cross in front of it once and when soaked never return......again highly recommended......got it on Ebay if you are interested.

3. Why is it that most cat owners don't fit a bell on their cats ?.......they can destroy local wildlife without one.

[chickpea]

I love cats too.

I have 3.

And 2 dogs.

And 5 chickens.

Never, ever see cats in our garden - the chickens see to that.

My cats don't wear collars or bells, but they are locked in between dusk and 9am - prime hunting time.

Because I have cats, I know what damage they can do to property - one of ours sharpens his claws on the doors, another sharpens her claws on the carpet (both preferable to the numerous scratching posts we have owned, seemingly). They vomit. They pee in the wrong place occasionally.They get fleas.

Because of the trouble we had with ex tenants when we said an outright no to a different request, we thought it better to negotiate this time - our worry being that if we said no, he may go ahead and get cats anyway.

I am quickly learning that a request from a tenant is purely a good will gesture on their part - they actually aren't interested in your answer because they intend to do whatever it is anyway.

[Mortitia]

'I'VE GOT ONE GUARDING MY HOT TUB' - there's a revelation! When's your next party RL?

Getting back the the debate - a tenant on 50K just states he is getting 2 kittens.

This shows scant regard for the conditions you have imposed in the AST and why could he just not get a rescue cat or better still buy his own home? Something these kittens will be last months broken toy in no time and this will be the tip of the iceberg.

I can see where Grampa is coming from but unless it is a particularly hard property to let I'd get shot.

[Richlist]

'I'VE GOT ONE GUARDING MY HOT TUB' - there's a revelation! When's your next party RL?

Every day is party day here Mortitia.

Not so long ago, every time I came home and let myself in the front door I'd find one or two bikini clad women running around. The first time it happened I pinched myself to make sure I wasn't dreaming. Once, I even went back out and let myself in again in case I was seeing things. But no, it was true.....the house was full of scantily clad females all asking me what I wanted to drink & wether I was going to join them.

My wife had invited a bunch of her friends over and they were having fun in my tub.

Sometimes when this happens I often think......where did it all go wrong ?

[chickpea]

'I'VE GOT ONE GUARDING MY HOT TUB' - there's a revelation! When's your next party RL?

Getting back the the debate - a tenant on 50K just states he is getting 2 kittens.

This shows scant regard for the conditions you have imposed in the AST and why could he just not get a rescue cat or better still buy his own home? Something these kittens will be last months broken toy in no time and this will be the tip of the iceberg.

I can see where Grampa is coming from but unless it is a particularly hard property to let I'd get shot.

Tenant is separated from his wife. The kittens are for his children when they visit, so yes, a flash in the pan no doubt.

The property has been snapped up within a week every time it's come up for let, so no problems resetting it.

Possibly the only minor issue is proving he has the kittens - not sure a post on Facebook, with photos is enough?

[Melboy]

I always thought Richlist was a Pussycat really.

I clearly remember Tracy's previous tales of woe with bad tenant's so it will be her decision on which way to go on this matter,

Shame the tenant can't come to the realisation that he is flouting the AST and that you just can't do that without some penalty.

[chickpea]

I always thought Richlist was a Pussycat really.

I clearly remember Tracy's previous tales of woe with bad tenant's so it will be her decision on which way to go on this matter,

Shame the tenant can't come to the realisation that he is flouting the AST and that you just can't do that without some penalty.

Thanks Mel.

You wouldn't believe the nonsense we had from the previous tenant's after I last posted about them here. We ended up having to get a solicitor involved and go down the abandonment route - stressful, to say the least. That is why I'm glass-backed about any sign of attitude from the tenant now.

[Grampa]

It's hard to plot the potential loss of rent against potential damage to the property (and other losses we may incur as a result

You appear to taking the view that you have to swallow the cost of any damage/cleaning etc but we are talking

about a working tenant on a good income. Surely the chances of claiming and collecting on (proven) dilapidation's are quite good.

[Mortitia]

So when the children are not visiting kittens will be left to do what ever but unfortunately you can't just put them in a cupboard til next time. Strikes me his purchase of kittens is as a toy to placate and make him more interesting to his offspring - what a sad person. He'll be buying a Porsche Cayman next.

I think this is unfair on the animals never mind the property.

Have you tried having that conversation Tracey and yes, kittens on Facebook would be enough to make me inspect again to verify the truth.

[chickpea]

The agent has now forwarded the tenant's original response to our conditions to having kittens. He says, "The landlord has already had a month and a half' s rent as deposit, which covers the kittens, doesn't it? Unless he wants 2 months, which is unheard of... Happy to agree to the other points (de-fleaing and carpet cleaning) but the bond issue is getting a bit ridiculous."

Our agent wrote back and explained the position with the deposit and asked for the tenant's thoughts - no reply.

She mailed him again, and phoned - no reply.

He has posted a new photo of himself in the house with a different kitten to last week's, so it is fairly clear he's gone ahead and got 2 kittens.

With an attitude like that, the s.21 is being drawn up as I type.

[chickpea]

Following the issue of the s.21, what is the best way of getting new tenants?

Should we wait until the current tenant has left the property before re-advertising?

Obviously, I realise that the s.21 is NOT a notice to quit and the current tenant could still be in the property several months after the notice date if he so chooses.

Should we be prepared to pay him to leave, as has been suggested elsewhere??

[Richlist]

In your shoes I'd:

1. Wait until the current tenants have left before trying to find new ones.....the property may need cleaning, repairs.

2. I wouldn't offer to pay them....I'd just follow the normal S21 route. If they are working professionals I'd be very

surprised if you'd need to extend the process.

[chickpea]

Thanks Richlist.

I don't anticipate any real problems with him leaving (except that tenants are a law unto themselves!), and I half expect that once he gets the notice, he may realise what it's about and start communicating.

The property isn't difficult to let, so I don't anticipate a huge void period - my only concern is that it will be the beginning of December at the earliest before it's ready to re-let, and I wonder if so close to Christmas is a duff time to find new tenants?