Letting agents

[minnieb]

I am seeking some advice on this forum from any landlords who may be in the know how regarding Contracts with Letting agents.

I live overseas and we put our property in the hands of a letting agency to alleviate any stress. The letting agency have been a nightmare, have not managed our property or affairs in the correct manner and have caused us no end of stress on numerous occasions. We have come to the conclusion now that we need to get rid of them and go with a more reputable company.

My question is I am not in receipt of our original contract with the letting agency and I asked them to send me a copy for my records. All they sent was a printed document outlining the terms and conditions of the agencies contract. All property details, type of scheme we signed up for, personal information ect, fields where blank, all they had put down on the copy they sent was the address of the property. So it seems as though they have no record, (which dose not surprise me) of our original contract with them. Can they hold us to any fees if we want to change from them to another company?

Any advise would be greatly appreciated!

[Mortitia]

Are you trying to do this from 'abroad'?

Are you happy with the tenant they have provided for you? If so you will have to probably 'buy' your way out of the contract or when that tenant leaves that ends your contract with the agency naturally and you could start again with another agent. If keeping the tenant you will have to get them to pay rent to you from abroard whilst you set up a new agent and I can see many problems.

Write to the current agent short letter saying you want to take over management of the property yourselves - don't give a reason and see what comes back. If you have been with them some time expect to pay 3 months commission to end things. That gives you a point to negotiate to if they come back wanting 6 months. If you get nowhere then you may have to come back and sort things our yourself or appoint a solicitor to act for you.

In future keep your paperwork and make a note of the main points when entering into a new contract with a new agent. You don't always have to accept thier terms - in these hard times rates and fees are negotiable.

Mortitia

[minnieb]

Thanks for your reply Mortitia,

We appointed this letting agency because we had to move abroad due to my husbands job, we took on the full management with the letting agency because we didn't know what we where doing regards letting a property out, and didn't want to have any worries. So we have been with them right from the start, just over 4yrs, they where fully aware we would be Non-residents. They have been a nightmare and constantly badger us about little stupid things that they should be taking care of, If you looked at the emails (all of which I have keept) you would be shocked. It is hard when you live abroad and can not just get in your car and nip round and get things sorted. I suppose we have to take some of the blame for giving them too many chances.

Yes we are happy with the tenants, we have been very lucky as we have only once had a problem with a one prior tenant, where by the letting agency did not recover the loss of rent and we where left to sort things out.

We have just recently had to deal with the Inland revenue, long story, but I had to deal with the auditors and the letting agency are in big trouble due to miss management with several landlords, even tried to tell us when all the correspondance started with the auditors that they had no Idea we where living abroad? a complete joke, seeings as we they knew this from the start and have sent us several emails knowing where we are and where we live, thankfuly I do keep all my paper work ( except the contract wich has got missplaced) and was able to prove we had done everything on our part expected of us by law and although the Inland revenue auditors where not able to comment on the letting agency they in a round about way told me to get shut of them ASAP.

I have contacted other reputable companies to use as we are now looking to get out of our contract with the letting agency we now use. Our tenants contract is up in January 20011, but they have never sent us any signed tenant contracts of which I have now asked for, as well as a copy of our written contract and as of yet I am still waiting for a reply. When I asked for a copy of my contract with them, they sent me a blank contract with terms and conditions and the only reference they had noted on it was our property address. So I am wondering if we would be legaly bound by it if we decided to part ways with them immediately?

I Would welcome any advice on this if you have any knowledge regarding contracts.

Thanks!

Are you trying to do this from 'abroad'?

Are you happy with the tenant they have provided for you? If so you will have to probably 'buy' your way out of the contract or when that tenant leaves that ends your contract with the agency naturally and you could start again with another agent. If keeping the tenant you will have to get them to pay rent to you from abroard whilst you set up a new agent and I can see many problems.

Write to the current agent short letter saying you want to take over management of the property yourselves - don't give a reason and see what comes back. If you have been with them some time expect to pay 3 months commission to end things. That gives you a point to negotiate to if they come back wanting 6 months. If you get nowhere then you may have to come back and sort things our yourself or appoint a solicitor to act for you.

In future keep your paperwork and make a note of the main points when entering into a new contract with a new agent. You don't always have to accept thier terms - in these hard times rates and fees are negotiable.

Mortitia

[Trenners]

Hi Bettyboop,

There is no reason why you should not be able to terminate with your existing agency although their terms and conditions of contract would usually detail if there are any termination penalties.

In the absence of any agency Ts and Cs - I would write to them giving 1 months notice.

The operation of a tenancy, where the landlord is a non-UK resident, is more complicated for the letting agent and the landlord.

The landlord should have applied for non-resident status with the Inland Revenue (by completing form NRL1) and the letting agent should have withheld income tax from the rent (and paid it to the Inland Revenue on a quarterly basis) until the Inland Revenue had given permission for them to pay you the rent _without_ deducting any income tax.

I assume some of the problems that you encountered were because the letting agent handled the taxation aspects of the tenancy incorrectly?

Anyhow, if you are switching agents, you are going to have to let the Inland Revenue know as they will need to write to the new agents giving them permission to pay you rent without deducting tax. You will need their non-UK resident landlord agency number (they will have this) to give to the Inland Revenue.

If they do not have a non-UK resident landlord agency number then I would suggest they are probably as inexperienced as the previous letting agency.

PS: If your property is anywhere near Swindon then my letting agency would be willing to take on the management of the property (but I appreciate the probability of it being located close to Swindon is remote).

Good luck,

Mark

[Mortitia]

Just to add - although you do not have a written contract ( it seems to me) you have entered into a verbal contract with the agent. I doubt from what you say that they will challenge you in the courts so take the advice Mark offers and give them 1 months notice.

When signing up with your new agent and if you are keeping the same tenant make sure they do not charge you for 'tenant finding'. Make sure you find out where the tenant's deposit is - it is your legal duty to know that. Read any contract carefully and don't be afraid to strike out bits you don't like and initial them in the margin. For instance new agent might want to issure a new agreement every 6 months and charge £50-100. This is unnecessary as the tenancy can and may be now periodic meaning the term of the agreement has expired but it is agreed to continue the tenancy on the terms set out in the agreement. Be firm, plenty of good agents out there and you are a 'prime' customer.

I think the golden rule here is not too rely totally on the agent but have a reasonable knowledge of the terms and phrases used in letting. Reading as much as practicable to make yourself knowledgeable and not such a walkover for any agent.

If you are in the Dorset or SW14/Richmond area of London I can recommend an agent if you email me privately.

Mortitia

[minnieb]

Thank you Mark, for all your advice

Mark, all you have said regarding my possible situation is exactly what happened and a whole lot more. We are now fully aware of how the scheme works for Non-Residents, no thanks to our letting agency. We live nr Manchester and I have identified a good Letting Agency who is working with me at the moment regarding switching over to them, I am currently looking through their terms and conditions and everything so far seems good. I am returning home for the Christmas and hoping to get everything done then. I have just emailed my letting agency regarding my contract as they have yet failed to send me a copy of the original contract I signed and also the current tenant’s contract. I presume that they don’t have either?

Mortitia, I have been given the Landlords agency No. from the new Letting agency I am thinking of using, they have given me a lot of advice, prior to the advice I have received from both yourself and Mark. wh

Thank you so much for your advice, I am happy that I stumbled across this forum and shall continue to use it. I have learned a lot over the last couple of weeks through our naivety but it has definitely been a learning curb!

Betty boop

[Mobolettings]

Hi Bettyboop,

A familiar story!! We picked up some contracts from another ex-pat landlord for these very reasons. Some LA's appear totally clueless - the sooner regulation comes to the industry the better, as it will remove the clowns from my business.

You have not said in detail what the current LA has done to merit you moving your business away. If the admin is awful then don't pay them to leave - sack them. You would need to contact your tenant in advance before you make any move to ensure that the next rent payment comes directly to you and not them or they will no doubt use this as leverage in any negotiations with you. There will be an issue with the deposit, but this should be protected and once they are out of the picture they have a responsibility to give it back to you / the tenants.

It can be a pain to sort it out from abroad. If you regularly come back to the UK it may be best done via a visit to the property and a meeting with the tenants face to face.

On tax, they have a responsibility to either deduct tax prior to payment over to you or pay gross if they have a NRLS approval number to do so from HMRC. If you told them you were non-resident and they failed to do either of these then they have a problem, as discussed by others.

Good luck with the new agents - they are not all bad by any means.

[minnieb]

Hi Bettyboop,

A familiar story!! We picked up some contracts from another ex-pat landlord for these very reasons. Some LA's appear totally clueless - the sooner regulation comes to the industry the better, as it will remove the clowns from my business.

You have not said in detail what the current LA has done to merit you moving your business away. If the admin is awful then don't pay them to leave - sack them. You would need to contact your tenant in advance before you make any move to ensure that the next rent payment comes directly to you and not them or they will no doubt use this as leverage in any negotiations with you. There will be an issue with the deposit, but this should be protected and once they are out of the picture they have a responsibility to give it back to you / the tenants.

It can be a pain to sort it out from abroad. If you regularly come back to the UK it may be best done via a visit to the property and a meeting with the tenants face to face.

On tax, they have a responsibility to either deduct tax prior to payment over to you or pay gross if they have a NRLS approval number to do so from HMRC. If you told them you were non-resident and they failed to do either of these then they have a problem, as discussed by others.

Good luck with the new agents - they are not all bad by any means.

[]Hi Mobo,

Thanks for your post.

You would not believe the undue stress this letting agency have caused me. We wanted to end our contract with them and they tried to tell us we would have to pay them 1000.00 plus 3mths notice. I could not recall us agreeing to these terms and could not find my original contract as we have been with them for 5yrs (unhappy years) now. We should have got rid of them long ago, but I did not want the hassle of having to move agency, until the final straw with the Inland Revenue.

They sent me a new terms and conditions contract last week of which I have only just been made aware of and that this preceded my new contract. I told them that I was not signing it. I checked with the OEA and it clearly states that if the terms and conditions are changed that the client must be informed, sent a copy and it must be signed, none of which I have done or was even informed about until I myself had asked for a copy of the original contract. They just sent my a copy of my original contract where it states nothing about monies to be paid only that I would have to give them 3mths notice to Terminate our agreement. I think this is why they where so reluctant to produce to me the original contract.

My tenants are not happy with the letting agency, they are very professional people and they are now being pressured by the letting agency to find another rental property with them because I have had to give them the two month legal notice to vacate so that I can be done with the letting agency once and for all. All this started because I had said that I wanted to end my contract with the letting agency but keep the tenants. I have decided that it is not worth the hassle and it would be easier to terminate the tenancy agreement as it is due in the next couple of months, but I do feel bad for the tenants.

I hope the tenants find another agency, which I am sure they will do. They even had the nerve to contact me and ask me if I would be happy to release then from their contract sooner if they (the letting agency) can find then a property to move into sooner!

Thanks!

[aimscotland]

It is the letting agencies responsibility to deduct the tax from a non resident client at source and pay the inland revenue. In the event that the LA did not apply the correct level of tax the revenue would bill the LA for it. I assume that the LA would then bill the landlord or attempt to at least. It would all depend on what the landlord told the tenant on signing the SAA. Did the landlord inform them that they were non-resident? In my experience very few LA are aware of this. The landlord should seek the advice of a tax accountant.