Section 21s

[MarkJ]

I have just re-signed two sets of tenants on two of my properties for 12months each. Based on advice I have also got them all (individually) to sign Section 21s with the date on of the date the new tenancies expire.

Question; if at the end of the 12 months they renew their tenancies do I need to get them to sign a new Section 21? Or does the Section 21 stand 'for ever' ?

[SPEEDTWIN]

A section 21 does not have a shelf life UNLESS the tenants sign another contract. Also was the deposit protected with a scheme before you got the s21 drawn up and signed? If not s21 invalid. Also was the s21 drawnup and signed before the start date of the new contract? If so it is invalid.

[Mortitia]

Another thing - what date did you get them to sign the Section 21? It cannot be the same date as the tenancy starts. Another one to trip up the unwary.

Mortitia

[Trenners]

Another thing - what date did you get them to sign the Section 21? It cannot be the same date as the tenancy starts. Another one to trip up the unwary.

Mortitia

I am not sure that this advice is correct. A Section 21 cannot be served BEFORE a tenancy has commenced but it is perfectly OK to serve the notice on the DAY that the tenancy commenced as the notice will be within the initial fixed term. The best time to get tenants to sign the Section 21 is when they sign all the other tenancy documents and pick up the keys to the property.

You should be careful though - as Mortitia advises - as some landlords sign the tenancy documents the day BEFORE the tenancy commences .... and, as previously advised by me, this would invalidate the Section 21.

Mark

[MarkJ]

can i clarify the above;

Date of the document - can this be before the tenancy begins ?

Date the document is signed - must be whilst the tenancy is in place (ie from day one of the tenancy onwards) Could a tenant sign it the day they sign up for the tenancy but date their signature for the day the tenancy starts?

Date that the section 21 kicks in - day after the tenancy finishes? Or day the tenancy finishes?

[Mortitia]

You cannot get a section 21 in place before the tenancy starts - think about it - there is no tenancy for the section 21 to be attached to.

My legal bloke and an agent I use both say that a section 21 cannot be served on the tenant the day the agreement is signed but it can be put in place the following day and any day after during the tenancy. You can say in the section 21 on what date you want re-possession of the property providing it is at the end of the tenancy.

This puts me at odds with Trenners view at present.

Discuss.

Mortitia

I

[Trenners]

You cannot get a section 21 in place before the tenancy starts - think about it - there is no tenancy for the section 21 to be attached to.

My legal bloke and an agent I use both say that a section 21 cannot be served on the tenant the day the agreement is signed but it can be put in place the following day and any day after during the tenancy. You can say in the section 21 on what date you want re-possession of the property providing it is at the end of the tenancy.

This puts me at odds with Trenners view at present.

Discuss.

Mortitia

I

Hi Mortitia,

Please see advice, below, from landlordzone on the Serving of Section 21 notices and also advice on deposits etc (when serving S21s). It seems that we were both right in the advice that we gave!

Best Wishes

Mark

You can serve the Section 21 Notice (Notice Requiring Possession) at any time during

the fixed-term, FROM and including the 1st day of the term*[see note below] TO and

including the last day of the fixed-term.

If you serve the notice on the first day of a tenancy (when the agreement is signed)

make sure you have the tenant sign an acknowledgement stating that the s21 was received AFTER signing the tenancy agreement. If the s21 and the tenancy agreement have the same date the tenant could claim in court it was served BEFORE the tenancy, and is therefore invalid.

*IMPORTANT NOTE: If you have taken a deposit it is important that you DO NOT

serve a section 21 notice until AFTER the deposit has been protected and the

statutory deposit protection notice has been served – should be served within 14

days of taking a deposit.

[Mortitia]

Thanks Mark. That does sum it up. I had forgotten the bit about the deposit.

Hope we all learnt something there!

Mortitia