Tenant giving notice

[Pauly]

Hi all,

My tenant is on a six month AST, which is now periodic (8 months since they moved in).

The start date of the tenancy was the 23rd of the month. I thought as the tenancy had become periodic, the tenancy would have to end on the 22nd of any particular month. Either myself giving a least two months or tenant giving at least one month's notice.

Anyway, tenant has recently given me notice, dated 17th May, saying that the last day will be 17th June, adding that rent will be 5 days less than the full monthly rent, as they are leaving before the 22nd.

Can tenant do this? Or can I insist that she pays me the last month of rent in full and that the end of the tenancy will be 22nd?

I thought that if I gave notice, it would need to be at least two calendar months up until 22nd of the month, not earlier or later than this date.

Advice / knowledge apprieciated.

[Melboy]

Sounds right to me.........1 months notice by Tenant 17th May----17th June. The tenant has completed their initial AST contract of 6 months irrespective of the original start date of the 22nd and now 2 months on into their 8 month on a rolling AST contract. Personally I would be satisfied with that.

Mel.

[SPEEDTWIN]

A tenant i believe has to give 1 ones notice that falls in line with the the rent due day. This comes under section 5 of the housing act. It is your choice to try to enforce it though.

[Chestnut]

I concur with Mel.

Whatever the precision of the law it's not worth upsetting a departing tenant for 5 days rent.

[salavan]

i guess you are lucky they are going without a problem but it seems to me the landlord has to give in and eat humble pie everytime

[Chestnut]

Salavan,

Quote: "....has to give in and eat humble pie everytime." ?

Are you suggesting that a landlord should normally insist on rent for the remaining days after a tenant has left and no longer benefitting from the tenancy?

[SPEEDTWIN]

Salavan,

Quote: "....has to give in and eat humble pie everytime." ?

Are you suggesting that a landlord should normally insist on rent for the remaining days after a tenant has left and no longer benefitting from the tenancy?

If the tenancy is pcm and the tenancy is now periodic and the tenant has given 1 months notice, that notice doesnt start until a rent due day. If you have a good contract it should explain that clearly but I know a lot dont. But regardless if does or doesnt you COULD insist the rent is due for a whole monthly rent period. So yes a landlord could insist for payment even after the tenant has chosen to leave early for the rest of the monthly period but if a new tenant was found the landlord can not legally collect 2 rents on 2 differant tenants for the same period.

But saying that a landlord should know basic housing law and if a tenant tried to give any old monthly notice it would be unreasonable to force the issue unless it was clear in the contact or explained earlier on in the tenancy.

[Chestnut]

My 'standard' AST contract (obtained from Office of Fair Trading) simply states that the tenant can give a month's notice of departure after the fixed period has ended. It doesn't imply that tenant's notice must be tied to a following monthly anniversary - hence, although a landlord might insist on an anniversary date, I consider that a tenant's month's notice could reasonably be given at any intermediate time to suit.

To me that is not the same as (unreasonably) insisting that the tenant pays up to a next anniversary after departure, having properly given a month's notice to depart at an intermediate date.

Have I missed a Statute on this?

As discussed elsewhere, 2 month's notice from landlord to tenant (the other way) should be correctly tied to anniversaries.

[SPEEDTWIN]

My 'standard' AST contract (obtained from Office of Fair Trading) simply states that the tenant can give a month's notice of departure after the fixed period has ended. It doesn't imply that tenant's notice must be tied to a following monthly anniversary - hence, although a landlord might insist on an anniversary date, I consider that a tenant's month's notice could reasonably be given at any intermediate time to suit.

To me that is not the same as (unreasonably) insisting that the tenant pays up to a next anniversary after departure, having properly given a month's notice to depart at an intermediate date.

Have I missed a Statute on this?

As discussed elsewhere, 2 month's notice from landlord to tenant (the other way) should be correctly tied to anniversaries.

If you are happy to accept a months notice from any old date the tenant gives then that fine its a win win solution for landlord ans tenant I was just pointing out the law and what you can insist on if you choose to.

[Pauly]

Thanks for your comments, especially the fact that I CAN insist on the tenant paying the full amount of rent. I have asked the tenant to pay the rest of the money, as it annoys me that there's one rule for the tenant and another for the landlord, so if the tenant wont pay the full amount, I will make a claim for the money at the tenancy deposit scheme, even if I don't win at least it will delay the tenant getting their money back

[Chestnut]

By insisting your tenant pays for days beyond their proposed departure it seems to me you want to upset them for some reason, ignoring the advice we have offered you.

Consider: Why should they pay for a benefit they don't wish to receive?

[Melboy]

I think I would be concentrating now on getting the property clean and ready and advertising for the next tenant rather than chasing the present tenant who, imo, has done nothing wrong as such and has been a model tenant and given you absolutely no hassle whatsoever.

Mel.

[Lyndon]

I am with Speedtwin on this.

Turn it on its head. The landlord gives two months notice because he needs to move into the property. Imagine how you would feel if that notice was five days less than the notice period required. The tenant refuses to move out . . . would you be happy to pay for a hotel for five days befoe you could move back in?

[Chestnut]

Turn it on it's head???

The notice given in this case is not less than the period required; it is merely not on due date.

Provided the tenant has given acceptable notice period (in this case 1 month) to the landlord and pays satisfactorily up to departure, I fail to see why it should need to be tied to a rent due date.

I see no justification to charge a tenant for any extra days after departure.

I'd rather be in soonest for a repaint etc.

[sunshinett55]

Hello I have a similar problem to you, but worse.

I was on hols until 15th Aug, tenants knew this and that I did not have email access, so they coudl contact me on my mobile.

On return from hols found email sent on the 10th Aug, to say SHORT NOTICE and that they were finishing on the 31st Aug,they are still in there as its the 22nd Aug now.

I am not saying anthing yet to them that I am not happy with this as dont want to stop viewings, but looks like I will not find tenants in time to fill the gap.

I have no deposit from them as they failed to pay their deposit last minte and I did them a letter and they signed this to say they would pay £200 installments into my bank account, but they have paid no deposit despite emails.

so I cannot use any deposit to make up of short notice period given.

I do have a tenancy agreement, but one that I downloaded myself so would not liek to take this to court in case I ended up worse off.

but rent has always been paid directly into my bank account by BACS and they have always labled this with their name and RENT, so it is very easy to prove that I have had regular monthly rent paid, same amount fromthem.

So if they have paid the same rent every month into my bank account, do they legally have to give me one months notice? does anyone know this please?

if so I will broach them about this on their last few daysor the last day as I dont want damage to the hse.

They say they will give the address they are moving to as they want post forwarded on, so not letting on yet that I am annoyed and upset with them.

How would aother landlord handle this what woudl you do, what are the legal rights of the landlord?

I cant afford to upset them yet as I have viewings.

Regards.

sunshinett

[Chestnut]

sunshinett55

Let these tenants go and then take stock of your losses. You don't need these tenants anymore.

From what you say you may only lose a few weeks (less than month) rent from them at most. It's only worth claiming through court if more than two months due and even if successful you may not recover debt.

You cannot expect tenants to help you avoid gaps between tenancies. It's not their problem. If you have viewings waiting you are in good position to move on soon with a new tenant. Use the time in between to clean and repaint etc.

1) imo tenants can give notice when they like. It may seem devious but not their problem if you happen to be on holiday. Maybe they were simply not ready to give notice before you went away.

2) You should not have let these tenants have possession without paying deposit first. It's a problem you created and too late to complain about now.

3) If they have been paying monthly you should be entitled to a month's notice but in reality this may not happen.

Let these tenants go happy and accept your (small) loss. Being a Landlord is a business like any other - not 100% profit.

[sunshinett55]

Thank you for replying to my last message.

To you mind me asking if you a landlord in the Isle of Man?

I dont know of any landlords myself, it would be good to talk to others, very useful to share experiences and views and even the law if we know it.

This site was good to use to get other landlords advice, although I am sure the rules and laws are different slightly here for landlords and tenants.

The shame about this is also that I had to get rid of a bosh fridge, bosh freezer, washing machine, cooker and condender dryer that were two years old when these tenants moved in as they moved from rented and brought their own goods with them as well as their furniture. So out of pocket here also as I think I will have to provide the white goods again.

Viewings so far have not turned up a tenant, and they all want these kitchen appliances.

I explain to people that view that I will get these if required, but not ordering until I know if they are required as these current tenants wanted to bring their own.

Someone also said to me that when they were renting the landlord said that when the cooker etc broke down and needed replacing that the tenants then take it on board to replace.

I suppose you could write a clause in to say that you are putting new white goods into the premises but that the tenant and landlord have agreed that the tenant is responsible to replace these if and when needed, when they come to the end of their life or break down? Is it possible to write a clause or get them to sign a letter to say, yes they will be provided but next time they will need to replace them? if you see what I mean. Then you dont have the over heads for years on white goods that the tenants will not use or respect in the same way as you do yours at home. Do you know of any landlords that do this, is this legal?

Yes they knew I was away on hols, in fact one of the tenants was on the same plane as me going over to mainland, I spotted him and say hello that was a conincidence. So he probably knew at this stage what he planned but did not tell me. The tenants knew I was on hols and had contact number, but decided to send email, but they knew that I did not have email access for all the holiday, that is why I said to them if a problem please do contact me by phone, I sent an email to them to this affect on the 27th July before I went on the 29th July and they gave a read receipt. I then saw the tenant like I said on the 29th when he was on the same plane as me.

They made a viewing hard yesterday. I turned up and the wife said its our Sunday can you make it quick, in front of the people standing at the door waiting to view. Her husband had already said that, I could view. As far as I am concerned they have not been fair with the notice period and I need to get as many people seeing the hse as I can even if it is a sunday. i did not say this to her. But when upstairs said sorry to the people viewing, that Ihad agreed to view at this time, would not normally trouble tenants on sunday but time was short as they had not given much notice. did not realise at the time that the husband (tenant) was in the small bedroom on the computer so he probably heard this. Then when I came in after showing garden the wife said, oh its ok thought it was basically half hour later viewing time, and that did not realise her husband had said yes to this time.

Told my husband what the wife had said and that the husband had probably over heard me, although not 100% on this, and he said perhaps it was a good idea that he had heard me, as it will bring it back to him that they are in the wrong by not giving me enough notice.

I think I will have lots of viewings on this hse, this will not be liked by the tenants. I know you normally give a days notice to tenants of viewings, but in these circumstances I think that I will try and fit some on the same day if I can, I dont want to lose any possible new tenants. Do you think it ok to give say notice to the current tenants in the monring for a viewing at night? after all they have given me just over two weeks notice so they are not playing fair? dont want to be in the wrong myself in case there are any come backs, but there again dont want to lose someone who might rent elsewhere.

If you are on the IOM, where do you buy all your electrical goods? I have been to MEA and MTV before. Someone said Electrical Cash and Carry, have phoned them and they charge £20 to deliver, but dont know what they are like if you got a problem with the goods later on. Also whether they will connect up the washing machine for me, as I am no good at this. The cooker is electric so thats not a problem.

do you normally supply a condenser dryer? I did the last time, this was put in the garage, hence being a condenser and then the tenants could run it anytime and not worry about venting it if it was rough weather outside.

The reason for a dryer was that I did not want them to have loads of washing hanging around inside incase this caused a damp problemin the hse and mould.

If I did not buy, then I could say to them that if they wanted to buy this then one has been kept before in the garage, as in the tenancy agreement it says not to dry your clothes inside, is this a fair cluase do you think?

the hse is a small modern hse, so not lots of room for drying clothes inside anyway.

Well sorry if this is long, really interested in chatting to other landlords, its a way of sharing experiences and advice.

Bye for now.

[Chestnut]

Sunshinett55,

1) No and no.

2) Don't carp about supply of white goods. Some tenants want them, others don't. Choice is up to you and your market.

3) Your equipment provided is your responsibility to maintain, not tenants'.

4) You can write what clauses you like about equipment, but don't expect any legal value.

5) Viewing clause usually 24 hours notice but even the nicest tenants may be uncooperative.

Alternatively be more patient and wait until tenants left. Then present property for vewing in state as you would wish it kept.

Weeks lost between tenants over total paid tenancy period is usually small percentage.

6) Your annual inspection should check for ventilation problems - if a problem discuss/ explain to tenant how to overcome.

Welcome to the site - but better to start new topic (i.e. not on someone else's), and keep questions short.

Don't expect a "chat".

[sunshinett55]

Sunshinett55,

1) No and no.

2) Don't carp about supply of white goods. Some tenants want them, others don't. Choice is up to you and your market.

3) Your equipment provided is your responsibility to maintain, not tenants'.

4) You can write what clauses you like about equipment, but don't expect any legal value.

5) Viewing clause usually 24 hours notice but even the nicest tenants may be uncooperative.

Alternatively be more patient and wait until tenants left. Then present property for vewing in state as you would wish it kept.

Weeks lost between tenants over total paid tenancy period is usually small percentage.

6) Your annual inspection should check for ventilation problems - if a problem discuss/ explain to tenant how to overcome.

Welcome to the site - but better to start new topic (i.e. not on someone else's), and keep questions short.

Don't expect a "chat".