Condensation problems

[zara]

Roughly a year ago the letting agency told me that the tenant in the downstairs front bedroom reported damp so I instructed the letting agency to "sort it out" at my expense off course as I understand it is a problem I am obliged to deal with as a landlord. It transpired the letting agency simply sent a handyman around who cleaned the damp and painted the wall beneath the window and charged me £45. A few months later the tenant complained again and I told the letting agency to deal with it using their contractor but this time to deal with the problem - the damp. However they did the same thing again, so I contacted a contractor myself and had a part damp proof course in that wall of the room carried out which cost roughly £300. The tenancy came to an end and a new tenant moved in and I thought the problem had been resolved but the new tenant complained of damp too and I didnt know what else to do so I bought the tenant a dehumidifier. However, the tenant complained again recently and said if the problem is not resolved she will withold rent and I told the letting agency to send someone around to resolve the problem because I simply dont know what else to do.

This time they had a damp report carried out and the contractors report said that there is no evidence of rising or penetrating damp in the property. The problem is condensation which is evident throughout the property. Isn't this due to a lack of ventilation? As I used to live in that property and it was perfectly alright but now the bathroom walls have mould growing on them, so isn't this down to the tenants not ventilating the property properly,Plus they have bought themselves a tumble drier which is not vented to the outside and needs to be.

The contractor recommended installing a drimaster ventilation system in the loft for these condensation/mould problems. I have always tried to be reasonable with the tenants and always tried to resolve any problems as quickly as possible and always at my expense off course, however this system will cost around £700 and I simply can't afford it and I was wondering if I am obliged to have it installed if it is a condensation problem not a damp problem. The letting agency have told me if I don't contact them in 4 days they will go ahead with it anyway.

[Simon Dewsberry]

A VERY common problem ...this is T fault by sound of it. Drier MUST be ventilated, window should be opened after bath shower for 5 mins to allow moisture to escape.

and prop needs ventilating .....I am sick to death of explaining such simple things to Tenants.

I would get damp guy to give you a report explaining this and tell T they will be responsible for full redec and any residual works to remedy situation.

Condensation

Condensation differs from rising and penetrating damp in that it is caused by excessive moisture that cannot escape from a building rather than damp coming in. The first sign that condensation is a problem is when black pinpricks of mould appear on walls, ceilings and even furnishings. There is usually a musty smell present and clothes and shoes in cupboards can become covered in a white or green furry mould. Factors, which contribute to condensation, include not opening windows, drying washing inside or using unvented tumble dryers and inadequate heating, but the biggest cause of condensation is the use of portable calor gas heaters. If the cause of the condensation is not rectified the pin pricks of mould will grow and can eventually cover whole walls and ceilings and ruin clothes and decorations.

The Rodent

[zara]

Thank you for your reply. I have stressed to the managing agency that I have done everything in my power and I am not obliged to have the ventilation system installed as it is a condensation not damp problem but they seem to be more sympathetic towards the tenants plight. Its a new drama every month and the threat of witholding rent. Usually being a landlord is ok a few hiccups but the bunch of girls I have this time are a bit of a nightmare.

[Reg]

Yes, as your damp report states condensation, then it is partly your tenant's fault for not adequently ventilating your property, and part of the blame is that the property is not ventilated sufficiently.

The tenant threating to hold back the rent sounds unfair as they have caused the problem and as rodent states you should remind them of that by explaining to tenant and showing them the report.

A possible cheaper alternative to £700, would be to install airbricks in the worst damp places.

This is a relatively small DIY job, I installed airbricks myself in both kitchen and bathroom to install ventilation as previous tenants never bothered opening the bathroom window and damp built up due to condensation.

Clay airbricks (exactly the same size as normal bricks but with holes in them) cost about £5 for two from local builders yard, B&Q sell plastic ones which work too (one needed for internal wall and one for external wall). The cement can cost as little as £3 per small bag (at wilkinson's or B&Q), the labour is less than an hour. All in all, the basic cost (not labour) would be about £15 for installing air bricks (per area / room).

A rookie DIYer could easily do it:

Firstly, check there are no electrical wires running along where you want to install your airbrick.

The airbrick needs to be positioned high on the wall, as hot air rises and needs to escape before it turns into water droplets that cause condensation.

Once you've got your position, chisel off a small area of plaster, until you uncover a brick, remov this whole brick from the internal wall by: either drill lots of small holes in the cement that surrounds the brick you want to replace, or hammer and chisel the cement away until you can pull the brick out.

Then from inside, in the space where the old brick was, hammer away / or drill around the opposite brick on the external wall. Then check that both airbricks fit, if not, chisel to fit BEFORE mixing cement.

Then mix up your cement in a bucket with water (wear gloves), put wet cement at the bottom and sides of the hole where the airbricks will go (using a filler knife or wall paper scraper), then a quick bit of cement on top of airbrick and push airbrick firmly in hole. Make sure airbrick is flush in the wall (doesn't stick out) and fill any remaining gaps with cement. You can also get a duct that surrounds both internal and external airbrick and stops the tiny chance of the airbrick getting blocked in years down the road, due to debris. Even if that did happen you could valcum the surface of airbrick to removed future debris build-up, so duct is optional.

OR an external builder you can trust shouldn't charge more than one hour of labour, £75 max (per area: one internal / one external airbrick).

This could be alot cheaper and an equally sound alternative to £700. Better still, if you know someone you trust that could do it, they may do it for next to nothing.

[Preston]

Hi

Condensation is a nasty problem for both landlord and tenant. And its one of those that I would be very careful about. Normally its not a landlord problem but, if the tenant does go to court you may be asked to show that the problem is in fact condensation and not some form or rising or penetrating damp. Worse still, even if the problem is condensation, if there is some disrepair or a design defect which contributes towards it, you may be held to be partially responsble.

Now, I'm not trying to panic you, far from it. I'm just saying that its important that you gather your evidence. The best way to do this is to get a competent person to inspect the problem and to give you a report on its causes and remedies. A DPC company inspection report could be enough, but better still would be a qualified surveyor.

And I'm no building expert, but I would be just be a little cautious over the air brick solution. Condensation is caused by moisture carrying air coming into contact with a cold surface. Any ventilation provided must help the warm, moist air out of the bulding. Hence opening windows or fitting window level extractor vents can often help - remember that warm air rises. Air bricks are usually at a low level and often n concealed areas - behind cupboards or appliances and away from rising warm air - and so can sometimes simply exacerbate the problem by making the area colder.

So, my advice would be to get some good advice and make sure it is properly recorded. Hopefully you can get this for free, but you may have to pay £50 - £100. Almost certainly it will prove that the solutions are in the tenant's hands and if so it could save you a whole lot of hassle in the long run.

Good luck

Preston

[CH1]

I have a similar problem to yours -recently had new double glazing installed and found the tenant complaining of condensation. The condensation is not within the sealed unit of double glazing but on the outside -so it can be wiped with a cloth. I was trying to ascertain from DB glazing company if unit was faulty. They informed me if on the outside it's not their problem. I was not aware of the problem happening when there was old single glazed old box sash sliding windows until I had them replaced with expensive double glazed box sash sliding windows and the new tenants moved in after the new windows were fitted.

I think in your case the non-vented tumble dryer has lead to the condensation issue if its not vented, windows must be left open to provide adequate ventilation.

Do your tenants leave clothes o dry on radiators without opening windows? The condensation was so bad in this instance that it left damp patches on walls.

I'm trying to find a solution too, but firstly suggesting to tenants to ventilate the room.

[Simon Dewsberry]

That room is wringing wet !

Will T EVER learn ?

The Rodent

[Reg]

Replying to Preston post, airbricks have solved my condensation problems and in my earlier post I stated "The airbrick needs to be positioned HIGH on the wall". Airbricks may not be everyone's cup of tea but it's my personal solution to condensation.

[Preston]

Hi

In my day job I have replaced many single glazed units with double glazed and condensation is a very common consequence, largely because the new units substantial reduce ventilation. I'm not sure if your windows have trickle vents in; they can help a little.

In response to Reg, yes, sorry, I did miss your reference to the airbrick being high up on the wall and I agree this would be much better. A controllable extract fan or humidistat fan would be even better; the ideal is to extract air when it is moist, but at other times to keep the warm air in to stop cold surfaces from forming. Opening windows does the same thing usually, because people tend to shut them when it gets too cold.

Preston

[Reg]

Yes I agree, extractor fans are also a good solution to condensation too and trickle vents on windows do help.

[zara]

Thank you for all your replies.

I spoke to the managing agency and told them its the tenants responsibility to make sure she opens windows etc and I have done everything I could and the report does state its not damp and i'm not installing the drimaster system at that cost etc and they said they will speak to the tenant and get back to me but they havent. I will chase it up. I might just try to get the money together and have it installed because I really don't want the hassle of court etc. But I do feel I have been reasonable and the problem is only in one wall in the whole house and to have the system installed is disproportionate. Actually I might just document all the steps I have taken to deal with the problems and write to both agency and tenant just to emphasise that I have done as much as I could. Then wait for recession to pass and sell.

Thanks all

[Simon Dewsberry]

Another good solution is to thermally line the room with 30-50 polystyrene backed plaster board and replaster .

If only one wall ..i guess it is an "outside" wall, then cost will be fairly cheap relatively speaking ...

The Rodent

[Melboy]

Any person who operates a tumble dryer within the property and then no doubt airs clothes on any convenient radiator can expect buckets of water condensation just about everywhere leading to mould growth and the smell of dampness.

Zara... your Tenent requires educating in basic hydro-physics!

Mel.