Stacey123 Posted October 29, 2007 Report Share Posted October 29, 2007 Hello I will give you the background first on the house and the situation, and will then list the questions. The tenants have been living in the house for roughly 3 years, and they have 6 month tenancy agreement which they renew every 6 months. They are an elderly couple on housing benefits (however, we did not know this as they did not tell us). We gave them 2 months notice to leave the property to which they agreed, however come 14th Sept (the date they should have been out), they asked to stay a little longer as the house they were going to rent next was not ready, this went on and on, and we finally verbally agreed that they would definitely be out on 31st Oct. I called them on Thurs and they told me that the house still is not ready, and they do not know how much longer it will take, could be a couple more months yet. We told them that we couldn't wait any longer as we had arranged for a kitchen, bedroom & bathroom to be fitted as well as new ceilings, to which they replied that they would not go with out an eviction letter, so we would have to go to court. They have breached their contract already as they have got a dog (again did not tell us about it), and in the agreement it clearly states no animals. They also stopped their direct debit, the last one was on 28th Sept, so they told us to use their deposit for the rent for Oct, however, I called the Citizens Advice Bureau and they said that they cannot use their deposit as rent, and therefore are now months in arrears. What we would like to know is: Is the only way to get the tenants out, by going to court? Or is there any other way we can get them out quickly?If so, how long would the court process take?What would we have to do to get the court proceedings started?Would we have to pay for the legal fees? (In the contract it says that if we have to evict the tenants, they would have to pay any legal fees, but they are on housing benefits, so they seem to think they wont have to pay for anything)Could we do anything about them breaching the contract by getting a dog?Basically what are our rights in general?Thank you in advance for your help with this. Kind Regards Kelly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F-Prop Posted October 29, 2007 Report Share Posted October 29, 2007 Hi Kelly, Sorry to hear of your troubles.... Have you served a Section 21(1)( notice? Is anything of your conversations with the tenant put in writing? It will help if it goes to court to have this! They will be in be reach of their agreement if they have had a dog (and probably because they are on benefits too depending on your tenancy agreement) Trevor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F-Prop Posted October 29, 2007 Report Share Posted October 29, 2007 Sorry Kelly, this system mucks up the text, it should be a letter "b" not a smiley face, but the system changes it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GPEL Posted October 29, 2007 Report Share Posted October 29, 2007 Elderly couple, trying to sort their lives out, could be your grandparents. Handle very diplomatically but explain that you are being left no choice other than to obtain a court order though you'd rather avoid it if possible. If notice has been correctly served then go through with it but if via S21 route you'll have to use small claims court for rent arrears. If you have any deposit left use it for your costs. Use form N5B to start proceedings. You won't get a look-in about the dog as the S21 possession award has nothing to do with breach of obligations. If via S8 the grounds for possession based on the dog would be discretionary and therefore unlikely to be accepted. Only take any further rent payments as a mesne profit and explain it to them otherwise could negate the notice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trenners Posted October 29, 2007 Report Share Posted October 29, 2007 Hi Kelly, What a shame that such a good tenancy should end this way. As F-Prop asks - have you served a Section 21 notice and when did you serve it ? In answer to your specific questions: 1) The only way to get a tenant to leave (assuming they will not leave of their own accord) is by going to court. To avoid going to court you might try "bribing the tenant" to leave. ie: Offer to let them off some rent, offer to pay them to go etc etc If you end up in court then you MUST have served the Section 21 notice correctly otherwise the court will not grant you repossession. 2) If you use the accelerated possession procedure (by completing and submitting the N5B form) then it will take 28 days to get an eviction order (assuming you have done everything correctly) and probably a further 28 days to get the Court Bailiff to remove your tenant from the property. 3) To start court proceedings you need to complete an N5B form, together with all of the supplementary evidence documents, and submit it to your local court house. 4) It will cost £150 in legal fees to submit the N5B to the Court and a further £95 to instruct the Court Baliff. You can ask for the costs to be paid for the tenant - which is easy to do on the N5B form - and you will probably receive judgement in your favour but whether you see any money is another matter ..... 5) You could take them to court for breach of contract (by keeping the dog) but this will take you much longer and you are not guaranteed possession - following the section 21 route (correctly) guarantees success. 6) Your rights are that a Court are the only people that can grant you an eviction order ...... in the meanwhile the tenants can sit in your property and not pay you any rent and there is very little you can do about it in the short term. If you try and remove your tenants using force you will be committing a criminal act of illegal eviction. If you cut off the utility supplies to the property you will also be committing the criminal offence of tenant harrassment. My advice - get a solicitor to check your section 21 notice and, assuming it is OK, start proceedings tomorrow. If it is not OK then you will need to re-issue it, wait another 2 months and then commence proceedings ..... Good Luck, Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stacey123 Posted October 29, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2007 Elderly couple, trying to sort their lives out, could be your grandparents. Handle very diplomatically but explain that you are being left no choice other than to obtain a court order though you'd rather avoid it if possible. If notice has been correctly served then go through with it but if via S21 route you'll have to use small claims court for rent arrears. If you have any deposit left use it for your costs. Use form N5B to start proceedings. You won't get a look-in about the dog as the S21 possession award has nothing to do with breach of obligations. If via S8 the grounds for possession based on the dog would be discretionary and therefore unlikely to be accepted. Only take any further rent payments as a mesne profit and explain it to them otherwise could negate the notice. The last thing we wanted to do was to ask them to leave, due to their age, but we have no choice. However, they are not as sweet and innocent as you would think, we have been very good to them and have let them stay almost 2 months more than they should have, helped them look for somewhere else to live, told them not to worry about any damages to the house and we would give them their deposit back, then they tell us they will not leave and there is nothing we can do about it, i was very shocked!! Would probably be a good idea then to just forget about them having a dog and concentrate on just evicting them. Thanks for your help Kelly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stacey123 Posted October 29, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2007 Hi Kelly, Sorry to hear of your troubles.... Have you served a Section 21(1)( notice? Is anything of your conversations with the tenant put in writing? It will help if it goes to court to have this! They will be in be reach of their agreement if they have had a dog (and probably because they are on benefits too depending on your tenancy agreement) Trevor. Thanks for getting back to me, I didnt serve a Section 21 notice, I typed a letter myself to them giving them 2 months notice, would that be ok? Thanks Kelly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stacey123 Posted October 29, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2007 Hi Kelly, What a shame that such a good tenancy should end this way. As F-Prop asks - have you served a Section 21 notice and when did you serve it ? In answer to your specific questions: 1) The only way to get a tenant to leave (assuming they will not leave of their own accord) is by going to court. To avoid going to court you might try "bribing the tenant" to leave. ie: Offer to let them off some rent, offer to pay them to go etc etc If you end up in court then you MUST have served the Section 21 notice correctly otherwise the court will not grant you repossession. 2) If you use the accelerated possession procedure (by completing and submitting the N5B form) then it will take 28 days to get an eviction order (assuming you have done everything correctly) and probably a further 28 days to get the Court Bailiff to remove your tenant from the property. 3) To start court proceedings you need to complete an N5B form, together with all of the supplementary evidence documents, and submit it to your local court house. 4) It will cost £150 in legal fees to submit the N5B to the Court and a further £95 to instruct the Court Baliff. You can ask for the costs to be paid for the tenant - which is easy to do on the N5B form - and you will probably receive judgement in your favour but whether you see any money is another matter ..... 5) You could take them to court for breach of contract (by keeping the dog) but this will take you much longer and you are not guaranteed possession - following the section 21 route (correctly) guarantees success. 6) Your rights are that a Court are the only people that can grant you an eviction order ...... in the meanwhile the tenants can sit in your property and not pay you any rent and there is very little you can do about it in the short term. If you try and remove your tenants using force you will be committing a criminal act of illegal eviction. If you cut off the utility supplies to the property you will also be committing the criminal offence of tenant harrassment. My advice - get a solicitor to check your section 21 notice and, assuming it is OK, start proceedings tomorrow. If it is not OK then you will need to re-issue it, wait another 2 months and then commence proceedings ..... Good Luck, Mark Hi Trenners, thanks for your response. It is such a shame, as for 3 years we didnt really have any problems, they were a little sneaky, but because they paid the rent on time, and we really didnt want to ask them to leave, but in the end we had no choice. I didnt serve them a Section 21 notice, but I did write to them to say that we were giving them 2 months notice, which I have a copy of. Would this still count? Unfortunately they will not take any bribes or anything like that, basically they love the house, and they only pay £700 a month for it, so they know they have a good deal, so they want to try and stay there for as long as possible! Therefore it looks like court is the only option. Plus they like the idea of court as they know that the council will then have to re-home them. Can anyone do the acceleration possession procedure? If so this is probably what would be best for us as we have ordered a kitchen, bedroom, 3 piece suit & bathroom, so we are now having to pay a lot of money for storage as we have no where to put it all. Plus I am picking up two kittens this Friday, and i now have no where to put them!!! I think I will forget about the dog as i really need to get in there as quick as possible. Thanks a lot for your advice, it has been very helpful. I will definately never rent a property again as landlords do not seem to have enough rights to their own property!! Thanks Kelly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GPEL Posted October 29, 2007 Report Share Posted October 29, 2007 Without a correctly served S21 you won't get possession. Once correctly served and notice period expired you can apply for possession yourself or a solicitor on your behalf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trenners Posted October 30, 2007 Report Share Posted October 30, 2007 Hi Kelly (again), I totally agree with GPEL - without a correctly served Section 21 notice you will not be able to take your tenants to court. I would advise that you immediately instruct a solicitor to 1) serve a Section 21 notice on these tenants and 2) follow up with an N5B submission once the 2 months notice has expired. Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stacey123 Posted October 30, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2007 Thank you all for your help, I just wanted to clarify that by sending my tenants a letter giving them 2 months which i wrote myself is not the same as a Section 21 notice?? Thanks Kelly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trenners Posted October 30, 2007 Report Share Posted October 30, 2007 Hi Kelly, It really depends what you put in your letter. A Section 21 notice needs to provide the tenant with specific information in a defined (prescribed) format. It may be that your letter is a valid Section 21 notice but it is more likely that it is not valid - only a solicitor will be able to tell you. Good luck, Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stacey123 Posted October 30, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2007 Hi Kelly, It really depends what you put in your letter. A Section 21 notice needs to provide the tenant with specific information in a defined (prescribed) format. It may be that your letter is a valid Section 21 notice but it is more likely that it is not valid - only a solicitor will be able to tell you. Good luck, Mark Ok cool, thank you!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jules44 Posted October 30, 2007 Report Share Posted October 30, 2007 Hi Kelly, I have replied to your pm. I did just a standard letter, but have since found out from Oliver(another member) that there has to be certain info on the letter, which mine didn't have. You maybe able to download one or I can ask Oliver if he would mind if I e-mailed you the one he sent me. Jules xx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stacey123 Posted November 5, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 5, 2007 Hi Kelly, I have replied to your pm. I did just a standard letter, but have since found out from Oliver(another member) that there has to be certain info on the letter, which mine didn't have. You maybe able to download one or I can ask Oliver if he would mind if I e-mailed you the one he sent me. Jules xx Thanks very much for your help Jules Kelly x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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