mindy Posted July 13, 2007 Report Share Posted July 13, 2007 my tenant gave me 2 months notice to leave and this is up tomorrow. i called her on tuesday to arrange a time to do the leaving inspection etc and was told that she had changed her mind as the house she was going to had fallen thru and she was now waiting for somewhere else. she just never bothered to tell ME!!! how do i stand as i have someone else lined up to go in there who had given notice on their place and who i may now loose. my tenant is very difficuly and very argumentative and explosive so i dont want to cause trouble but she was the one who gave me notice in the first place. i told her i was reasonable and that i could wait till she found somewhere new but i think she will carry on mucking me about so how do i get her to go? do i need a court order? i asked her y she didnt tell me earlier and she said she got my answerphone when she phoned and so didnt bother to leave a message !! thanks Mindy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trenners Posted July 14, 2007 Report Share Posted July 14, 2007 Hi Mindy, If your existing tenant doesn't leave peacefully - which she probably isn't given that she has no-where to go - then you will need to get a court order to get her evicted. You could serve a Section 21 notice (requesting possession in 2 months time) and if she doesn't leave after that then you can go to court. I don't think there is anything you can do if she serves notice on you and then changes her mind ....... I will be interested to hear what GPEL and the other legal experts have to say .... Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GPEL Posted July 14, 2007 Report Share Posted July 14, 2007 Mark's right, only way to possess the property is with a court order if she doesn't want to leave. However, you could possibly have avoided this by communicating earlier about move-out arrangements and external factors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Dewsberry Posted July 14, 2007 Report Share Posted July 14, 2007 Sxxx happens !!! I think BT have got the right message for this one "It's good to talk......................." If not essential!! Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pugsy Posted July 14, 2007 Report Share Posted July 14, 2007 You will need to give her 'official'notice and the threat of eviction and court costs, etc. Obviously your course of action should depend on whether or not she has been a good tenant so far never mind if someone is argumentative. Some of my worst tenants have been sweet as pie and amicable to my face and complete nightmares when it came down to the nitty gritty. Timeous rent payments/clean and tidy property are my top two, if she ticks the boxes here, i'd be inclined to draw up a new lease or roll on periodically with a section 21 in place just in case. Better the devil you know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J4L Posted July 14, 2007 Report Share Posted July 14, 2007 The T has given notice and it's up today. They have got to go! End of!!!! Especially as Mindy thinks that leaving them in may cause her problems in the future. Of course Mark suggests that they may not go peacefully, and I'm sure that this probably will have happened now, (7.50pm) but legally Mindy should've been safe to continue with her plans. It's NOT her fault, however the other guys suggest here that it is!! If the Tenant hasn't gone today, then of course Mark's comments are correct and you will need to evict them via a s21. I've gotta ask guys? Why does Mindy 'need' to serve a s21 now when the initial 'notice' was by the Tenant and not Mindy herself? I would agree that serving one now will need to be done if they haven't gone, but for heavens sake give the girl a chance! She's come in for advice, not sarcasm or wit, Simon, but a 'real' answer to a problem. Stop being so smug Simon please with silly responses and give some proper advice. (f**k me, I'VE been accused of daft, silly posts in the past, but you really do take the p**s) GPEL "by communicating earlier about move-out arrangements and external factors" Yup, hindsight is a great thing but this response does not alleviate Mindy's problem nor does it solve it, nor does it give her any ideas what to do. Yes she'll learn from it but hey, she was looking for advice on what to do 'now' not what she should've done! Let's see if she comes back and posts again shall we? Maybe this is why there are not great numbers on this forum! Rodent "Sxxx happens !!! I think BT have got the right message for this one "It's good to talk......................." If not essential!!" Callous, silly, selfish and uncalled for simon. This 'I'm the king of the castle' attitude of yours really annoys me. One day something will happen to you and your 'millions of £'s worth of portfolio' and you'll need some advice. I doubt for one minute that you'll be expecting rude sarcastic and selfish comments back but I really hope you get them. You deserve no less than Mindy has received. I'm Sorry but you're making this out to be Mindy's mistake and not the Tenants! The T gave notice which Mindy accepted in good faith, why does she need to communicate 'earlier' about the move out if the Tenant doesn't attempt to contact her about her 'change of mind' Of course the Tenant says she "got my answerphone" but that's the oldest trick in the book and it's not a real excuse is it? She could've kept trying and would have eventually got through. All in all I'm appalled with the attitude that some have on here because they 'own loads of properties' or 'have experience' or are just 'up themselves'!! It's a forum for god's sake! Where people come to debate, to chat, to have fun, but mostly they come for advice not to 'gloat' or show off how big their c***s are. Either give sound advice or stay on that 'high horse' and say nothing please. It's much safer!!!! To end this, Mindy, please don't take too much offence at some of the comments please, i'm just about to PM you with some 'sound' advice and 'suggestions' with my 'little experience' but I think you may find it a little more constructive than you've received here up to now. Gareth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GPEL Posted July 14, 2007 Report Share Posted July 14, 2007 Someone's missing the point. Like it or not, if the tenant won't leave the only way they can be made to leave is by an order of the court. S21 is served at times like this because the tenant has broken the trust bond and cannot be relied on to leave at all, now or in the future. It's not the landlords fault but experience shows time and again that keeping in touch greatly reduces the possibility of this occuring. The best advice on offer is to persuade the tenant to leave early if possible or serve notice and go to court if resisted, this is objective advice. Also, prevention through good communication is subjective advice and often better than the cure. Should the landlord incur costs and inconvenience from the tenant's actions the only compensation sought is financial but unlikely to result in anything apart from withheld rent and the property mistreated. This forum is about giving advice, not point scoring against others posts. An empty property is better than a bad tenant... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J4L Posted July 14, 2007 Report Share Posted July 14, 2007 Which is exactly what I have said in my PM to Mindy. My point, and I DON'T think I missed anything here, is that your last post is the most sensible on here and it would've been better received than some of the comments made. "If the tenant won't leave the only way they can be made to leave is by an order of the court. It's not YOUR fault but experience shows time and again that keeping in touch greatly reduces the possibility of this occuring. The best advice on offer is to persuade the tenant to leave early if possible or serve notice and go to court if resisted, this is objective advice. Also, prevention through good communication is subjective advice and better than the cure. Should YOU incur costs and inconvenience from the tenant's actions the only compensation sought is financial but unlikely to result in anything apart from withheld rent and the property mistreated.!" I have changed only TWO words from that post but don't you think that this would have been a sufficient answer rather than the smarmy one's that were posted?? That's MY point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pugsy Posted July 14, 2007 Report Share Posted July 14, 2007 We should all be able to give advice and opinions without being attacked, am i missing the point of this forum? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J4L Posted July 14, 2007 Report Share Posted July 14, 2007 Pugsy, you're absolutely correct and the advice you gave in your post was fine and it WAS advice. My problem is with the 'non-advice' comments that are made!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Dewsberry Posted July 15, 2007 Report Share Posted July 15, 2007 Hehe We have a new promotion on the forum ..................J4L is now the new moderator policing the site and scoring posts and opinions and dishing out "lashes" when required ......... Question: Court Clerk or Court Jester............Hahaha I consider myself truly punished .............and i'm sure GPEL will feel the same Pugsy Gold star me - i've been sent to sit on the "naughty"step!!! Gareth The situation was clearly identified and described. advice was to issue S21 and in this case - If Mindy wants T out - and she refuses to go -then as had already been stated twice the only option in this case is a S21 Agreed my post was considerably shorter than usual but the message was very clear - It is essential that Mindy and the T talk ...................not about the weather or who is the LA who talks the most Sxxx or even trying to teach their grandmother to suck eggs....but i would think about whether a suitable date could be agreed........... Now i could have written chapter and verse on every possible outcome of this conversation but that would be a bit too long........... I hope your "secret" post contains the instant solution that Mindy requires - Mindy if not keep us updated and we will give you our opinions !(as right or wrong as they maybe!) And risk the wrath of the mighty warrior J4L.........!!!! If the Tenant hasn't gone today, then of course Mark's comments are correct and you will need to evict them via a s21. I've gotta ask guys? Why does Mindy 'need' to serve a s21 now when the initial 'notice' was by the Tenant and not Mindy herself? I would agree that serving one now will need to be done if they haven't gone, but for heavens sake give the girl a chance! She's come in for advice, not sarcasm or wit, Simon, but a 'real' answer to a problem. Stop being so smug Simon please with silly responses and give some proper advice. (f**k me, I'VE been accused of daft, silly posts in the past, but you really do take the p**s) or to read this garbage..!!!!! GPEL "by communicating earlier about move-out arrangements and external factors" Yup, hindsight is a great thing but this response does not alleviate Mindy's problem nor does it solve it, nor does it give her any ideas what to do. Yes she'll learn from it but hey, she was looking for advice on what to do 'now' not what she should've done! Let's see if she comes back and posts again shall we? Maybe this is why there are not great numbers on this forum! Yep,Thats one possible reason - but i can think of another couple ............... Have you been on th wacky backy behind the bike sheds again..............!!!!????????? I know the Sun was out today - but it does rather seem to have possibly gone to your head a little ? Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J4L Posted July 15, 2007 Report Share Posted July 15, 2007 "Agreed my post was considerably shorter than usual but the message was very clear - It is essential that Mindy and the T talk" So why couldn't you just say this then instead of patronising the poster? If posters knew all the answers they wouldn't ask the questions. To be honest you mention 'court jester' and I think that's your role here not mine, you try so very hard to be funny at times, to get everybody on your side. and some DO suck up to you, I know not why. How very very sad!! haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Dewsberry Posted July 15, 2007 Report Share Posted July 15, 2007 To be honest you mention 'court jester' and I think that's your role here not mine, you try so very hard to be funny at times, to get everybody on your side. and some DO suck up to you, I know not why. What planet are you on..................................? J4L last seen in the transporter room of "Starship Enterprise" Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mindy Posted July 19, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2007 Hi all ** Gareth (J4L): the above hasn’t put me off this site but thankx for looking out for us newbies with some of your comments. I’m a tough cockney bird so can take it on the chin! I want to say to thanx to everyone who replies to my posts as I know that people are taking time out of their personal time to post advice and solutions to all our landlording problems. I take on board everything that was said and can only hope to learn from my mistakes and from what advice anyone is kindly willing to give. Update: tenant didn’t leave. Now cant get hold of her to discuss new moving out date. It is ‘good to talk’ but what if the tenant don’t want to?? I did confirm the acceptance of her notice in writing and stated that I would go there on the day to check her out of the property, my fault I spose in thinking that when someone gives you written notice cos THEY want to leave, that they actually mean it!! Solution: If I’m right by what u r all saying, to get her out I need to serve a S21 on her. But why do I have to give her 2 months notice when she has already given me the 2 months and served the 2 months notice? Cant I just tell her when I think is reasonable (ie 2 weeks) and then she has to go? She is only 3 months into a 12 month contract and I don’t have a break clause in it so can I still give her notice? And on the section 21 what grounds do I have to put (if any?). Sorry but I’ve never done a S21 before!! Can it be served any time during a 12 month agreement that is fixed n has no break clause? Mindy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Dewsberry Posted July 19, 2007 Report Share Posted July 19, 2007 Hi Mindy I think you will find that you cannot use a s21 until the end of the initial fixed period - also the only way you are going to get her out before that time is if she is in breach of lease (non payment of rent etc) in which case you will need to use a s8 ..... It looks like she os going to be there for sometime - although the fact that she gave you notice may help on a s8 anyone else .......this is not a strong area for me.!!!!!!!! Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Posted July 19, 2007 Report Share Posted July 19, 2007 I have to admit my first thoughts were that you can't serve notice as it is still in the initial period, but am unsure how her notice to quit affects this, since legally you didn't need to accept this, it may not make a difference. It just shows again the landlord is being flexible (i.e. you didn't have to accept her notice) and gets screwed over for it and the tenant is protected..... But you never hear this side of the story in the papaers/news etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mindy Posted July 19, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2007 she owes rent to top it all so can i get her out with an S8? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Dewsberry Posted July 19, 2007 Report Share Posted July 19, 2007 Hi Mindy s8 is one answer - not my preference (i would use debt collectors to get rent money -and negotiate her leaving immediately as part of settlement- have posted in detail on this several times- you will need to search above for detailed info on this one) Or if you go S8 route it will take several months AND you are unlikely to recover the rent money in full............ Most people (for reasons beyond my comprehension!!) go straight for a S8 and court... You will get plenty of advice from most on here if you go this route - just go back thru previous threads for lots of detailed advice!! Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTLWhizz Posted July 21, 2007 Report Share Posted July 21, 2007 Nobody has mentioned the new tenant who is lined up. Has Mindy signed an AST with them? If so, Mindy will have contracted to rent the property to them but can no longer supply. What happens then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GPEL Posted July 21, 2007 Report Share Posted July 21, 2007 Contracts shouldn't be exchanged until the day the new tenancy starts, only then would it become binding. However, if one is already in place, it can't be superceeded by another with someone else taken later; the courts and CAB would have a field-day with it. A tenancy must be correctly ended before another can take place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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