sueelward Posted June 18, 2007 Report Share Posted June 18, 2007 Hello all - having had some very useful info re renting out the house we've renovated I'm back for more! I live in a Victorian house with a large two storey coach house at the back. It is now used as a garage with games room above. My husband wants to make this into a flat by making a kitchen in the back of the garage with a spiral staircase going up from the kitchen to a lounge/bedroom with shower room above. At present there is an outside metal staircase. A few questions:- Are there any fire regulations here? The garage never has a car in it but does the ceiling need special treatment? Is it considered a fire hazard to have a spiral staircase from a kitchen? ALSO does this count as renting a room in your house? The flat will be self-contained and have it's own entrance but the electric and council tax will not be separate. There is no gas. Thank you in anticipation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Dewsberry Posted June 18, 2007 Report Share Posted June 18, 2007 Hi Suze I just love props like this ! Now there are 2 ways to go about this ...................I would recommend calling the LPA and asking "in theory" what th score is ...." WITHOUT GIVING THE CORRECT NAME AND ADDRESS and either act upon it or not ! 2nd way is to consider it as a posh garage - workshop even - maybe home office Now if it were a "home office" is it unreasonable to want to make a cupof tea or sandwich (requiring a basic kitchen while you are working ? or go to the loo? or have a shower after using th multigym in the corner ? and then to want a snooze ? ......................... OR it could be considered an annex to the main house with bills paid at main prop! Posh summer house etc..... Staircase - as long as you have a 1/2 hour "corridor" from furthest point of exit to exit then should be okay (or is it 1 hr?) Alternatively fire escape window upstairs - or could the external stairs be left where they are and "built in" and be incorporated in the "grand design" ? As long as you have an alternate escape route stairs to kitchen will prob be okay - but may need to be enclosed and 30/60 min rated to comply - if you go full hit route! If you are letting as self contained unit to seperate household you will prob find both ct and water willinsist on seperate billing....... Just a few quick thoughts for you ... I'm you will get a more defintive reply shortly ........... Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plym77 Posted June 19, 2007 Report Share Posted June 19, 2007 Hi Suze A bit of a more obscure one, but my opinion would be no - it wouldn't qualify. The flat would be self-contained, with it's own facilities (kitchen/shower room etc) and the tenant would therefore not be living 'as a family member'. Rent a room applies to renting a furnished room in your own home - being the main residence - where the lodger has the use of the facilities that you use - kitchen, bathroom, lounge etc. Also - be very careful for capital gains tax purposes when you sell. You are in danger of this becoming a separately identifiable residence and therefore you may affect your Principal Private Residence Relief on disposal of the property. This said, you may be entitled to Lettings Relief - however, this is something you will need to have reviewed by a tax adviser specifically for you, and is not something I can advise on generally on this forum - it is too specific a situation and needs thought with all the information available. If you would like a specific review of this at any point, please feel free to email me on sherena.glanton@horwath.co.uk to discuss this further and for a competative quote. For reference I am a Chartered Tax Adviser with a particular bias in property tax. Regards Sherena Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Dewsberry Posted June 19, 2007 Report Share Posted June 19, 2007 I guess if you sub metered gas and electric it could be argued that it is on en suite annex ?? (If say one of your children decided they wanted to sleep out there several nights a week >>>>>) Can you sub meter gas??.....anyone .....i have never had a situation where ive had to ........ This is also going to depend very much how living arrangements are set up............if you let the whole prop an AST then if someone decides to sleep in the office/garage/summer house/workshop etc ...so what ? This would pretty much absolve you of most of the planning regs etc (but common sense should apply with regards to evacuation re fire etc) BUT if it is clearly 2 sep residences then you should at east explore your obligations - if even you choose not to act upon them !! My feeling is that you will have to adhere to current b regs - Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melboy Posted June 19, 2007 Report Share Posted June 19, 2007 Answering some of your questions with a Developers hat on............. The Garage ceiling has to be fire boarded with 1hour fireproof ceiling boards. Fire escape stairs are required externally and self-closing fire doors to all rooms on internal build. Planning permission and building regulations will be required before any conversion whether you let it out or not. It would classified seperately for Council Tax Band A. from your main residence. Mel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sueelward Posted June 19, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 19, 2007 Answering some of your questions with a Developers hat on............. The Garage ceiling has to be fire boarded with 1hour fireproof ceiling boards. Fire escape stairs are required externally and self-closing fire doors to all rooms on internal build. Planning permission and building regulations will be required before any conversion whether you let it out or not. It would classified seperately for Council Tax Band A. from your main residence. Mel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sueelward Posted June 19, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 19, 2007 Oh my God. I'll just give up and slash my wrists then......... (Think I might just ring the Planning Office first, though!) Thank you very much everyone. Suze Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lauralivesartnouveau Posted June 19, 2007 Report Share Posted June 19, 2007 I guess if you sub metered gas and electric it could be argued that it is on en suite annex ?? (If say one of your children decided they wanted to sleep out there several nights a week >>>>>) Can you sub meter gas??.....anyone .....i have never had a situation where ive had to ........ This is also going to depend very much how living arrangements are set up............if you let the whole prop an AST then if someone decides to sleep in the office/garage/summer house/workshop etc ...so what ? This would pretty much absolve you of most of the planning regs etc (but common sense should apply with regards to evacuation re fire etc) BUT if it is clearly 2 sep residences then you should at east explore your obligations - if even you choose not to act upon them !! My feeling is that you will have to adhere to current b regs - Simon Hi Simon I have gas sub meters they are the pound coin type not reliable difficult to correctly calculate setting cost around £75 each plus fitting. A company in Lancaster does a sub gas token meter good concept but never tried it. Transco will supply separate supply meters at around £700 each and they even dig your garden (for new electric connection you have to dig your own garden and costs twice the price) Oliver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sueelward Posted June 19, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 19, 2007 I rang the planning office and they say I will need planning and building regs which is OK because we do want to do it properly and legally. A man is coming to look at it........ I don't see how it could ever be classed as a separate property. though, as there is already water and electricity in the games room which is supplied from our house. (it's only about 10 metres away) I was thinking about just including an amount in the rent for this. It's not really even 'change of use' as the downstairs used to be stables and upstairs was groom's accommodation (there was a big coal boiler up there before we tarted it up which was DEFINITELY a fire hazard). I have done some research and there is a type of tenancy called 'occupier with basic protection' which I understand applies to a property occupied by the landlord which also has other self-contained flats in it. I am going to argue for this type of tenancy. Basically we are creating a separate space but services are supplied from the main house. There must be plenty of granny annexes built like this that are then rented out when granny decamps to the next level! I will let you know what happens and thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lauralivesartnouveau Posted June 20, 2007 Report Share Posted June 20, 2007 I rang the planning office and they say I will need planning and building regs which is OK because we do want to do it properly and legally. A man is coming to look at it........ I don't see how it could ever be classed as a separate property. though, as there is already water and electricity in the games room which is supplied from our house. (it's only about 10 metres away) I was thinking about just including an amount in the rent for this. It's not really even 'change of use' as the downstairs used to be stables and upstairs was groom's accommodation (there was a big coal boiler up there before we tarted it up which was DEFINITELY a fire hazard). I have done some research and there is a type of tenancy called 'occupier with basic protection' which I understand applies to a property occupied by the landlord which also has other self-contained flats in it. I am going to argue for this type of tenancy. Basically we are creating a separate space but services are supplied from the main house. There must be plenty of granny annexes built like this that are then rented out when granny decamps to the next level! I will let you know what happens and thanks again. Hi Suze Don’t include electric my advice is to get a sub meter I use westwood programmable meters. They are great you sell the tenant tokens which they can only get from you and the meter allows you to change the rates with the managers card. Oliver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Dewsberry Posted June 20, 2007 Report Share Posted June 20, 2007 If flat "includes" garage to be converted as opposed to "seperate" you will probably not need fire ceiling ! Fire ceiling (1 hour)is no big deal you just use pink plaster board which is about 3 -4 a sheet dearer than normal! Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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