lanaby Posted March 31, 2007 Report Share Posted March 31, 2007 I think this topic has been covered before but I can't find it so apologies if it has. My DSS tenant would like her boyfriend, who stays most nights anyway and is also on benefits, to move in and I'd previously said that would be ok just so long as he was named on the tenancy agreement. The HB deposit is currently for her only and I'm not yet sure what they're intending re informing benefits that they're about to live together. Is there a best way that I should manage this or any pit falls to look out for? many thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Dewsberry Posted March 31, 2007 Report Share Posted March 31, 2007 YEP! One very big pitfall- Failure to disclose "change of circumstances" to HB is enough for HB to be withdrawn while they investigate - took them 7 months in my case when a tenant decided to work as well as claim HB, to cut a long story short - HB want the "overpayment" back NOT from the tenant -FROM ME - £1200- i am still arguing with them over this ! Tenant has long gone of course ! Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trenners Posted March 31, 2007 Report Share Posted March 31, 2007 Hi lanaby, Unusually for me !!! I totally agree with rodent. You are going to have big, big problems if you let the boyfriend move in or if you try and add him to the tenancy agreement. The best outcome is going to be that the boyfriend and the girlfriend are both entitled to Housing Benefit and each will receive 50% towards your rent ... but as rodent warns ... this might take the HB department weeks or even months to assess. If you do not tell the HB office that the boyfriend has moved in then any benefit you receive for the girlfriend will be recoverable. Some Councils have started to chase the tenant for HB overpaid due to change of circumstances but if you are aware that the tenants circumstances have changed - you have a moral and legal duty to report it to the benefit office. So, in summary, don't give permission for the boyfriend to move in and don't add him to the tenancy agreement. If that means that the girlfriend "serves notice" - so be it ... it is better to have the girlfriend leave than to have 2 tenants living at your property and receiving no rent whilst the Council investigate everything "up and down the ying yang". Good luck - you might need it .... Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Dewsberry Posted March 31, 2007 Report Share Posted March 31, 2007 On the same song sheet for once, Mark!!! The other thing you need to be very careful of; is the situation as it is at present "who stays most nights anyway " is probably enough to cause serious problems if HB are made aware of this, as they may deem this to be his main place of residence ie. living there - Mark? Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanaby Posted March 31, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2007 Blimey! thanks guys, good advice that I will take careful note of. They both seem pretty decent and there are kids involved so I think I'll encourage the up front route with HB and hope for the best. many thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Dewsberry Posted April 1, 2007 Report Share Posted April 1, 2007 Hi lanaby If you do end up with a new lease make sure you have a clause like : "It is the responsibility of the Tenant to pay any sum, repayable by the Landlord, to the Local Authority, where housing benefits have been paid directly to the Landlord" inserted - if this is not in your current lease it maybe a good idea to try and get it inserted - like today !! Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trenners Posted April 1, 2007 Report Share Posted April 1, 2007 Hi lanaby, As rodent says - you need to make sure HB don't start reducing the benefit (for the girlfriend) based on the boyfriend stopping over "most nights". I agree that a clause in the tenancy agreement re: the tenant being responsible for repaying the local authority is a good idea ... but if the LA decide to chase the landlord ... there is very little that you can do (even with that clause in place) because it is very likely that the tenant hasn't got any money - which is why they HB. The thing to establish with all HB tenants is that the responsibility to pay the rent lies with THEM and not with the Council. So many HB tenants try and absolve their responsibility to the Council saying "it's not my fault that the benefit has been wrongly calculated and you have not received the money". Whenever you get a lame excuse from the tenant tell them to 1) borrow the money, 2) pay the money within 7 days ... else you will start eviction procedures (even if you have no intention of actually doing that). It is amazing the number of HB tenants who can then manage to find the money !! Good luck, Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Dewsberry Posted April 1, 2007 Report Share Posted April 1, 2007 Hi lanaby I am in the very position that Mark describes above with LA demanding £1200 from me - Please be very careful how you handle this - it could and is quite likely to blow up in your face. My policy on HB now is that i DO NOT allow it -unless they pay two months in advance and they have a fully referenced Guarantor - with whom i will speak to explain that the second HB is late or stopped i will be looking to them for immediate payment - also explaining to them that on a lot of occasions it is actually not the tenant at fault just HB deciding to screw the claim up for a few months because the form the tenant has sent in 4 times has not been received or lost !etc. Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanaby Posted April 1, 2007 Author Report Share Posted April 1, 2007 thanks again, at least I'm hopefully able to avoid a massive pitfall! Elana Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTLWhizz Posted April 9, 2007 Report Share Posted April 9, 2007 If the boyfriend stays most nights anyway, there might be a problem already. I think that the definition of cohabitation is complex and relies on a lot of factors. But if they boyfriend is staying "most nights" they might consider this cohabitation, and potentially HB fraud has already taken place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roppa Posted April 18, 2007 Report Share Posted April 18, 2007 the reason people are asked for the housing benefit monies back is for the simple reason that the law stated that "who ever recived the housing benefit payment, they are liable to repay this money back to housing benefit." it was therefore the responsability of the landlord or agent to refund the money back to housing benefit.. even upto 5 years after the tenant had commited the fraud. (i know this as one case was relating to 1998 and it was 2003 at the time they requested the money back O_o ) to my knowledge.. the law changed on Housing benefit payments some time ago now. personaly i have been requested to pay back the well over £10,000 back to housing benefit for tenant's that have recived housing benefit payments and they should not have. this is due to a mixture of them starting work and getting an overpayment, or getting a partner to move in with them but not inform housing benefit, OR getting a child that is over 16 not to register themselves... the last one is a real pain in the butt as how many 16 year olds do you know that are bothered about going down to housing benefit and sorting it out ?? basicaly you just send them a letter back stating that you where not aware of any reasons why the tenant should not be allowed to recive housing benefit, and you feel it is unjust that the recovery payment is taken from yourself. This therefore makes housing benefit take the money owed from the tenants future housing benefit claims at a weekly rate. As far as newcastle city council are concerened they dont even write to me anymore asking for money back, as they know that i write back within 24 hours pointing out to get there act together and chase the tenant for the monies owed not the inocent landlord/land lords agent that recived the money. the change in the law was way back in april 2005 for newcastle... i would recomend that if any of you get a request for payment back to housing benefit for a tenant that you feel is unjust. DONT JUST SIT THERE AND TAKE IT! housing benefit know that they should not be requesting the money from you, but if it makes it easier to get it from you than the tenant then that is what they will do! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GPEL Posted April 18, 2007 Report Share Posted April 18, 2007 If the HB is paid direct to the tenant, who then pays it to you, the council cannot claw it back from you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephanie Posted May 6, 2007 Report Share Posted May 6, 2007 Might sound a naive question, but does it matter if the tenant does not claim HB but has a boyfriend move in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Dewsberry Posted May 6, 2007 Report Share Posted May 6, 2007 Hi Scoobie If no HB is being claimed then there is no potential problem with HB ! If tenant is paying with her own means - then it is your view as the Landlord as to what action, if any, that you take. If you do allow boyfried to move in then i would look at a rent increase (possibly ?) and obviously adding him to the ast so as to avoid any possible "SITTING TENANT"issues ! Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landlordsdirect Posted May 14, 2007 Report Share Posted May 14, 2007 Hi lanaby, I would see it an advantage to have on file the personal details of the boyfriend, and if you do have to chase rent then you stand a better chance of success with two tenants. If you do a new tenancy now be aware of the new deposit rules. Take your rent payments from the tenant instead of direct from HB any false claim of benifit from the tenant will not be sort back via the landlord. All you have to do then is trust your tenant to pass the money over to you, if they dont HB dont care. Get a house owning guarantor for all your tenants and be sure to complete the form correctly, you will protect yourself to a much greater extent. HB's practise of claiming back from landlords in my eyes is and has been against the law since day one, its not the landlord who is the claiment. I would like to see all current and previuos claims challenged for a refund in the european court. Regards G Hey Simon maybe you should state to HB that if they dont drop thier claim you will go to the european court. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Dewsberry Posted May 15, 2007 Report Share Posted May 15, 2007 Hi G Have already told them to address all further correspondance to my solicitor some months ago - to date; no reply ! Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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