eddie22 Posted August 18, 2006 Report Share Posted August 18, 2006 Hi all One more question - new member and third today. I heard from my letting agent 12months ago (when I first became a landlord) that compulsory electrical testing was imminent and would need to be carried out every 12 months similarly to the requirement for a gas testing certificate. I don't have gas supply to my rental property but naturally have electric and have supplied a couple of electrical goods with the house (new cooker and fridge). Do I need to arrange for an electrical certificate now - has this come into force - where can I read about it? Thanks Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russ295 Posted August 18, 2006 Report Share Posted August 18, 2006 hi all domestic wiring requires an inpsection every 10yrs to comply with bs standard, if the property is rented its also required at every change of tenancy, the inspection is a Periodic inspection reoprt. the items supplied by you should be pat tested, there are companies that test these and it doesnt cost much, the pir can vary in cost, depends on the size and number of circuits involved. russ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GPEL Posted August 18, 2006 Report Share Posted August 18, 2006 There's currently no mandatory requirement to do electrical checks but under the landlord and tenant act and other legislation you do need to ensure that you let a safe property. Periodic fixed wire checks every 5 years and PAT checks annually should identify any problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russ295 Posted August 19, 2006 Report Share Posted August 19, 2006 pg 68, table 3.2, The IEE Inpsection and Testing publication GN3, BS 7671:2001 states "change of occupancy/10 years" between I&T. also pg 64 3.2 731 (i) "legislation reqires that electrical installations are maintained in a safe condition and therefore must be periodically inspected and tested-tables 3.1 and 3.2" the IEE are the people who make up the rules with regard to electrical wiring and what they say goes. if you have a PIR done in accordance with the IEE requirments you will keep yourself all above board. so my advice is to have on done now to identify any problems and then as stated above, look for a spark who is a member of a governing body NICEIC, Elecsa, NAPIT, etc (they have a list of members on their websites) , not necessary but they are monitored yearly and you will have someone to complain to if they are not above board. russ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GPEL Posted August 20, 2006 Report Share Posted August 20, 2006 There is still no mandatory requirement in law to do a check on changeover or periodically whatever the IEE states, just guidance. However, whatever the intrepretation, the important thing is to be able to let a safe property and undertake perodic testing to identify any problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russ295 Posted August 20, 2006 Report Share Posted August 20, 2006 i understand what your saying GPEL but the IEE are the people who govern electrical standards, and although the regs arn't retrospective they are there for guidance. now as your stood in front of a judge after one of your properties has had an electrical fire and someone has been injured, and you have had three new tenants since your last PIR, you will have to explain to the judge your reasons for not following their guidance, as said previously it all about covering your arse! russ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GPEL Posted August 20, 2006 Report Share Posted August 20, 2006 No issue here, my periodics are every 5 years and PAT annually. Periodics on every changeover seem excessive and judges will interpret whatever way they feel at the time anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPEEDTWIN Posted August 24, 2006 Report Share Posted August 24, 2006 I have just recieved a flyer from a electrical contractor which states "we are sure you are aware of the new legislation which comes into force in april 2007 requiring all properties to have a full electrical test and report on any and every change of occupier" "we specialise in test and inpections zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz" Now I`m all for a bit of touting for work but this is the first I heard of it. Can anyone confirm this??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GPEL Posted August 24, 2006 Report Share Posted August 24, 2006 He would say that... Current Gov likes to tell everyone about forthcoming legislation and then cancel or delay it:- HIPS, A-day for residential property in SIPPS, Tenant Deposit Scheme and other stuff. Save your money and be wary about pre-empting anything this bunch of closet commies predict. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
george62 Posted August 26, 2006 Report Share Posted August 26, 2006 Be wary of a PIR test and question the electrician beforehand as to what it entails. I had one done on a 5-year-old flat and was given a failed report re earth bonding in bathroom and en-suite and also to immersion heater. Estimate 2-man job £1200. I contacted builders (Barratt) who told me they had built it to current legislation. If my 5-year-old property fails what about thousands of older ones? I still don't know what to do for the best. Be sure to check out thoroughly with whoever you want to do the job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russ295 Posted August 26, 2006 Report Share Posted August 26, 2006 hi george, unfortunatly your probally in the same position as a lot of people, the regs change that often. but i am sure suplementry bonding in a bathroom has been a requirement for more than 5 years, i will see if i can find out a bit more info for you. what code did he give you for the faults he found? also what is in the bathroom/on suite, metal or plastic pipes, electric or combi shower, shaver sockets, light fittings, radiators etc. russ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
george62 Posted August 27, 2006 Report Share Posted August 27, 2006 Hi Russ, Absence of local supplementary bonding where required (main bathroom and shower room). CODE 1. Absence of curcuit protective conductors for circuits supplying items of class 1 equipment (immersion heater, heater in shower room). CODE 1. Recessed lights fittings in kitchen close to timbre joists. CODE 1. I found it hard to believe Barratts would build (and have approved by local council building inspectors) with so many faults that needed rectifying in a 5-year-old flat. Not sure what pipes are metal or plastic, no radiators, flat all electric. Any help/advice would be appreciated. Regards, George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russ295 Posted August 29, 2006 Report Share Posted August 29, 2006 hi george, below are some replies i have had to your problem, and imo i would class them as code 1 also. did you buy the place new, if so was the lights/heaters fitted at a later date? as said below if barrats contractors fitted them, they should be to current regs at the time. it may be worth getting a second opinion, as there are alot of "pir" companies popping up lately and there is no requirment for any formal training unless they are registered to do pir's for a governing body. sound crazy but as long as you know the regs anybody can do them!! russ ---------------------------------------- Hi Russ imho... Supplementary bonding - Code 1 if it's not there, code 2 if there but not connected to the cpc. Was still required when Barrats built the flat, but has your buddy checked whether they have installed it in an adjacent airing cupboard? Absence of cpc to the immersion and heater - code 1 but is it possible that these items were fitted/changed by the occupier? Can your buddy check whether these items are installed in other flats. Downlights - 'close to beams' is too subjective. Are there signs of burning? Again check that these were installed by the builder. Loyd ---------------------------- A PIR should compare the installtion with the CURRENT edition of BS7671. The inspector will make observations and recommendations based on his/her findings and Code these according to their importance with Codes 1 to 4. The defects listed are definitly Code 1 defects. The statement by the builders that the installation comformed 5 years ago is nonsense as the listed defects would have contravened the edition of BS7671 in force at the time, 16th Edition 2001. John Peckham --------------------------------------- I find it extremely unlikely there is no CPC to the heater and immersion. Are they wired with T&E cable? It is possible the bonding is present, just not found, or is the plumbing plastic? This has the sound of a "careless" PIR to me. Whilst it is possible there are these defects I would be suprised if there were not others if these are present, like missed sleves on strappers, overstripped cables in the ceiling rose, missing g/y sleeving etc. I suggest a bit more checking before you blame Barrets. Was the PIR done by NICEIC contractor or someone else? How long did it take? (1/2 day at least to do it properly!) David. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russ295 Posted August 30, 2006 Report Share Posted August 30, 2006 hi again is there an eic (electrical installation cert) given for the wiring when you bought the place? russ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deb Posted August 30, 2006 Report Share Posted August 30, 2006 Just about to let my flat - had an agent round today.... He said that I would have to have a PART P test done and after he looked at my fuse box, said that the test would state that my fuse box would need to be replaced! (Which would cost a fair bit!) Is the initial Part P test a legal requirement? And is it a legal requirement to carry out all work that the test reccommends? I have had 3 other agents value the flat and not one has even mentioned the Part P test?! All a bit confusing!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russ295 Posted August 30, 2006 Report Share Posted August 30, 2006 hi deb, ask your agent what a part p test is, i have never heard of one, although i have and i sat it at college! part p is a building regulation, same as part a,b,c,d.......... its a pir he should be refering to. just because your property has an "old" fuseboard it doesnt mean it needs to be replaced, as long as it complies, (disconection times, etc) it may be fine, although usually when there is an old fuseboard there is old wiring and old practices. russ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
george62 Posted August 31, 2006 Report Share Posted August 31, 2006 Hi Russ, flate was new when I bought it 5 years ago, nothing added to it since. Been rented out, no problems and still is. It was my idea to get test done, it seemed a wise things to do at the time, sorry I did now. It is one of a complex of approx 100. I would not think many of the others have had a test done. Sorry to bother you again. Thanks for your previous help. Regards, George. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martinharvey Posted August 31, 2006 Report Share Posted August 31, 2006 what sort of costs should we expect to pay for these tests? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russ295 Posted August 31, 2006 Report Share Posted August 31, 2006 no prob george if thats the case i would be knocking on barrats door and your local building control as they would have had to pass it, but i would maybe get a second opinion first, ask a local spark (or better a recommended one) if he could check just the faults found. as of cost martin this can vary, london could be £250, but up north £125, be wary of the co's that offer them for £75 ish. as said before, an average house should take at least 4 hrs and then report needs to be written out. russ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
george62 Posted September 1, 2006 Report Share Posted September 1, 2006 Thanks Russ, I'll do as you say and get a second opinion from a known/recomended spark. It's been a bit worrying. Cost N West I paid £165 including VAT. Report was printed off on computer (looked quite professional). Thanks again for help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
george62 Posted September 1, 2006 Report Share Posted September 1, 2006 P.S. I have contacted Barratts and sent them a copy of report. They answered that flat was built to all regulations at the time (1999) and was passed by Building Control people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russ295 Posted September 1, 2006 Report Share Posted September 1, 2006 hi george, the regs regarding sup bonding and no cpc to imersion heater would have been in effect 5 years ago so the flat hasn't been built to the current standards. but......... its proving it and who would be liable, the contractor, barrats or bc? i would get the 2nd opinion and if he says the same you may have a case for them to rectify the problem. there should be an electrical instalation cert for the flat when it was built, you should have recieved a copy, bc should also have a copy, this could be invaluable if you try to take things further i keep thinking that the bathroom and shower room may be supplied with plastic pipes, house builders have been using it for quite a while, if so, sup bonding may not have been necessary, have a look at this http://www.iee.org/Publish/WireRegs/Wiring...not_to_bond.pdf as for the missing cpc for the imersion heater, what type of cable is it? the light close to the joist, you could have it moved and fill the cut out with some plaster board and fill and sand. hope you get sorted russ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GPEL Posted September 2, 2006 Report Share Posted September 2, 2006 See if gas-elec at www.gas-elec.co.uk can help with price and advice. They just test so no hidden agenda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
george62 Posted September 7, 2006 Report Share Posted September 7, 2006 gpel, I contacted gas-elec, they sound good, I'll ask them to do another test. Thanks for info. Russ, I've dug out paperwork from buying flat , electrical info is there and details of earth bonding re: bathrom etc. So it sounds as if the electrician who wanted £1200 was a con-man. I'll post again (hopefully last time) to report a successful outcome. Thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russ295 Posted September 7, 2006 Report Share Posted September 7, 2006 can we go halves on the £1200 then, £600 each russ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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