SLIP IN TENANCY AGREEMENT, they say they gave too much notice tiven

[sunshinett55]

Hello quite a few probs actually.

Old tenants were a problem and quite agressive to me.

It was a JOINT TENANCY AGREEMENT BETWEEN FRIENDS. One friend wanted to leave after 3 months, so I had to give the other person a LETTER GIVING THREE MONTHS NOTICE. But I gave them every opp to find someone new.

They are now saying that they did not need to stay for three months.

The reason being is that I made a slip in in the tenancy agreement, it says that the LANDLORD HAS TO GIVE THREE MONTHS NOTICE, but the tenant has to give 2. This is a typing error.

But when one tenant wanted to leave I said that the other did not want to and I would give her 3 months notice, so this is correct in teh tenancy agreement, as that tenant did not give me written notice to leave, I gave her notice. The other tenant gave me a written note saying he wanted to leave.

So can they get me on this?

The other thing is that one of the tenants seems to owe money to lots of people.

Post has arrived since she left, she obviously does not want to change her address re these people as she is in debt with them.

Can I open post for past tenants, they left on 10 Dec it is now 7 Feb? These seem to be chasing letters.

The tenants are also in despute over DEPOSIT, I gave them a cheque and recently sent them another cheque which they say is £90 short, but it is not. They are terrible people calling me a theif threatening to take me to court. ONe is on benefits so guess she will get free legal aid. She could not return to work by allaccounts as she hit someone. They have not cashed my two cheques and say they wont as they are not happy with the amount returned.

The other thing and dont know if this carries any weight and will get them off my backs is that I found post, bank statements, from 8 Oct, the time they occupied the hse, to ANOTHER PERSON, who was not meant to be there! This person actually was in the local papers as being remanded in custody, of no fixed abode, for property damage in early Jan. This person seems to have used our property address as her own. Surely the tenants are responsible for this? Sent them an email to one of the tenants, they said contact the other tenant as they knew where she was and who she was, and that they had already forwarded mail onto her. Therefore they admitted that they knew she was using the address! Sent email to other tenant saying who was she? Other tenant replied by email to say that she was an exgirlfriend and sorry she used address for post. So therefore they both knew that she used address for post and I think lived there, but how do I prove anything?

Also will using this address as her own, with tenants knowing, carry any weight if they take me to court over deposit monies and paying one months rent too much in their eyes?

They are the sort of people that dont care, the girl owes money to everyone, but wont cash my cheques!

Any help please?

Thank you.

[Mortitia]

Hello Sunshine,

This sounds like War and Peace landlord stylie!

Where did you get the tenancy agreement from ? - you say there was a typing error- is this one you put together yourself?

When you took a deposit from these people what did you do with it? You are supposed to 'protect' it by putting it with a company or the government run DPS. Did you do this?

If not you could be in big trouble and this is what your ex tenant may have an idea on.

If they do take legal advice (and it may be free if they are on benefits) then I'm sure they will be advised that they can take you to court for not protecting the deposit and you will have to pay 3 X the deposit as a fine. This may explain why the ex-tenant has not cashed your cheques and is almost blackmailing you. Interesting idea but illegal!

If post has arrived for the departed tenant then return it to the sender. Strike out the address and write 'gone away' on the envelope and put it back in the box. Eventually they will stop sending letters. If you open them and do not send them back how will the sender know that person is not there? Don't get involved in their affairs and forget about the other person who stayed there - it is irrelevant.

Get back to me with some answers on the tenancy/deposit thing.

Mortitia

[sunshinett55]

Hello Sunshine,

This sounds like War and Peace landlord stylie!

Where did you get the tenancy agreement from ? - you say there was a typing error- is this one you put together yourself?

When you took a deposit from these people what did you do with it? You are supposed to 'protect' it by putting it with a company or the government run DPS. Did you do this?

If not you could be in big trouble and this is what your ex tenant may have an idea on.

If they do take legal advice (and it may be free if they are on benefits) then I'm sure they will be advised that they can take you to court for not protecting the deposit and you will have to pay 3 X the deposit as a fine. This may explain why the ex-tenant has not cashed your cheques and is almost blackmailing you. Interesting idea but illegal!

If post has arrived for the departed tenant then return it to the sender. Strike out the address and write 'gone away' on the envelope and put it back in the box. Eventually they will stop sending letters. If you open them and do not send them back how will the sender know that person is not there? Don't get involved in their affairs and forget about the other person who stayed there - it is irrelevant.

Get back to me with some answers on the tenancy/deposit thing.

Mortitia

Hello thank you for trying to help me.

1. I live on the ISLE OF MAN, part of UK but a little different.

2. Here as far as I am aware we do not have to put the deposit into any special scheme like on mainland.

My tenancy agreemnet said that the deposit left would gain no interest.

3.. The tenancy agreement was initally taken from an estate agent one on the IOM, and then added clauses from various landlord books, like one by which and anther one. But I must have made a slip up and put 2 months notice by tenants and 3 by landlords, when it shoudl have been 3 either way.

Have slight probs as a bit dyslexic and hate paperwork really.

Surely I can get them in a sense on tv licence, surely they wont take me to court as they did not provide a tv licence either for some of the term or none of the term, hence letters left to occupier from tv licencing saying enforcement offices will be sent. I am going to look at tv licencing site again and see what is the fine and put this in my letter also, as well as the things that they did wrong. Then send this to them and say that the two deposit chqs sent will be cancelled after 7 days and I do not want to deal with them directly anymore.

its difficult as they are nasty people, one on benefits to my knowledge as she did not return to work after maternity leave as she hit someone at work by all accounts and also she is pregnant again.

Surely seeing they have done wrong if they took it to court, then not having tv licence, which was in the agreement and also sent them reminders, then surely they are wrong for this and also not signing up for the gas, again in tenancy agreement and reminders sent? what do you think?

Thanks.

p.s. will notify elec board etc, and other post of their current address and put post back into box as not here anymore.

[Mortitia]

Hi again Sunshine,

I'm not sure about tenancy laws in the IOM - but interesting about the deposit aspect.

What ever you put in the contract they obviously agreed to and signed so that is a legally binding contract.

Three months notice is a lot of notice either way and very unusual here on the mainland.

I don't see what they can take you to court for as you wanted posession and have got it - they left of their own accord and if they had read their paperwork properly they would have realised that they did not have to leave so quickly. Sounds like you are best shot of them anyway.

TV licence thing - people on benefit, on the whole do not give a flying fig about such things and the authorities will not pursue them - don't go there.

Concentrate on getting youself peace of mind and not going to courts with tittle tattle about TV licences.

Send the cheques back saying this is in full and final settlement. Don't give them 7 days - that will only cost you to cancel the cheques. There is a fair chance that the tenant has an overdrawn bank account so cannot benefit from the cheques directly. You could try offering cash but get them to sign a reciept saying this is in full and final settlement and meet them in a public place and take a friend with you as a witness.

If they threaten you - go to the police.

Next time download a tenancy agreement from this site or similar that is more up to date than the relic you seem to have used!

Good Luck,

Mortitia

[sunshinett55]

Hi again Sunshine,

I'm not sure about tenancy laws in the IOM - but interesting about the deposit aspect.

What ever you put in the contract they obviously agreed to and signed so that is a legally binding contract.

Three months notice is a lot of notice either way and very unusual here on the mainland.

I don't see what they can take you to court for as you wanted posession and have got it - they left of their own accord and if they had read their paperwork properly they would have realised that they did not have to leave so quickly. Sounds like you are best shot of them anyway.

TV licence thing - people on benefit, on the whole do not give a flying fig about such things and the authorities will not pursue them - don't go there.

Concentrate on getting youself peace of mind and not going to courts with tittle tattle about TV licences.

Send the cheques back saying this is in full and final settlement. Don't give them 7 days - that will only cost you to cancel the cheques. There is a fair chance that the tenant has an overdrawn bank account so cannot benefit from the cheques directly. You could try offering cash but get them to sign a reciept saying this is in full and final settlement and meet them in a public place and take a friend with you as a witness.

If they threaten you - go to the police.

Next time download a tenancy agreement from this site or similar that is more up to date than the relic you seem to have used!

Good Luck,

Mortitia

HELLO THANKS AGAIN FOR REPLY, this is the letter that I was going to send them tonight, see what you think,

We are writing in response to............... recent email.

We confirm the following,

A gardener was never charged for. During a general property inspection on the 11 Sept 2009, dog excrement was found in the back garden. Miss ,,,,,,,,,,, said that she had allowed her Mums dog to stay for two weeks whilst her mum was away on holiday. No permission was sought for this from the Landlords and pets were not allowed in the property. A letter dated 11 Sept 2009 was drafted to remind you, the tenants of the property that No Pets are allowed. This has Miss ............ signature on the bottom of it confirming that she has read the letter. The letter was copied for our file and returned for Mr Crompton to also view and take note of.

The Disney curtains were not charged for.

The two curtains in the double bedrooms, only had one curtain out of the two left up, so they were charged for.

The shower curtain was especially bought new for this tenancy, so that it could be easily washed and therefore maintained (machine washable). The shower curtain was charged for.

The step up stool was in the property.

The extension lead and small light were bought initially so that you could easily use this if you needed to see in the loft space. Miss W.............. commented that she found the light useful in her bedroom.

These are a few things listed above that alone could easily amount to the £90 that Miss W,,,,,,,,,,,,, thinks she is outstanding.

We would like to mention the following points,

We spoke to you both at the beginning of the tenancy to say that the tenants were responsible for taking on all day to day bills of the property, including the TV licence, (THERE IS A £1,000 fine if you do not have a TV licence, which we told you about) and also registering with Manx Gas. In my email of the 15^{th of July 2009, we made it clear that you need a TV licence even if you have sky, Miss W,,,,,,,,, replied back, "I am aware of TV liecencing and gary has it in hand as I have told you.", Therefore it would appear at this stage, which is over a month since you both moved into the property, 5th of June 2009, that no TV licence had yet been purchased. So we asked a few times for a copy of the TV licence, or proof of payment, but you said you did not have a copy. When you left unfortunately we had to contact the TV licensing people to explain that you had moved out, they were chasing you the tenants for a TV licence. The letter from the TV Licensing Company said that "THIS ADDRESS IS UNLICENCED, YOUR DETAILS ARE BEING PASSED TO OUR ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS. We have contacted you before, however there is still no TV licence for this address".}

^{If at a later date TV licensing approach us to ask for monies due, or a fine, then we will hold you both responsible and liable for any costs involved in this.}

^{2. We informed both of you that it was a requirement for you to register with Manx Gas asap. It is usual for tenants to pay the gas they use at the property, and Mis ................. said that she already paid for the gas in her name at her current address (May 2009) and this would be simple for her to do. Unfortunately this was never done in your names. Manx Gas on many occasions wanted to cut you off, but we did not want to cut you off, we would hate to see anyone without hot water, so we had to deal with Manx Gas, even whilst away on holiday in the summer we had to deal with Manx Gas over this, we tried to help you register with Manx Gas. This caused us both stress and unnecessary emails, communication. Miss ............ said many times, and in emails, that it would be no problem registering with Manx Gas it just meant a change of address. But we will not go on about this. We felt that we were fair to you in this respect as we kept the gas at the premises for you even though Manx Gas wanted to cut you off.}

^{3. Communication– At the start we emailed and spoke about the viewing of the property. About how you would like the conservatory to look, it was decided on new nets to be ordered, and also you expressed you would like new nets for some of the other windows. We then said we would like to buy some Disney Curtains for ........ baby’s room to make it look nice. Then we decided that new curtains for your two rooms would help you. About what colour carpet and flooring was going into the house ready for you to move in, we wanted the house to be nice for you both, so we had new carpets in the bedrooms, landing and stairway and new bathroom flooring, so we thought it nice to keep you informed and chatted in a friendly way about this. Helping you settle in. These emails and communications were in a very friendly manner, trying to help you. We had to contact the DHSS re Miss ................ renting this property, (herself, her baby and Mr ...... living in the property). There were a lot of emails and letter we had to send re this, and we kept you informed of how this was progressing. Then there were emails about Manx Gas, TV licence etc. Miss ....... assured us that registering for Manx Gas would be no problem, then there seemed to be a problem, so further communications were needed to try and get Manx Gas into the name of you, Mr ............ , we asked about you possibly finding a guarantor as you seemed to need one to register in your name. Later emails saying that Manx Gas were chasing me saying that they wanted to cut you off, that Manx Gas said they really needed the property in your names, I tried to get you to register somehow with Manx Gas, this was stressful for both of us. . Miss ,,,,,,,,, also said that she had problems with the cooker, the cooker was less than two years old, but instead of calling in someone to look at it we were quite happy to replace it for a new cooker. A new cooker was delivered in July 2009. We did feel that my communications were meant in a good way and trying to help you both.}

^{4. Unauthorised persons staying at 128 Maghergarran/using property address – we are very concerned as landlords that person or persons have listed this as their property address. One person was Miss R..... We enquired after this person after finding mail at the house after you had moved out. Miss W replied back in her email of the Sat, 21 Nov 2009 19:02:06 "There is still post arriving for R,,,,,,, which you may have to talk to gary about i have returned some but do not have a forwarding address.}

^Emma"

^{We sent Mr C......... an email saying who was this Miss R.......?}

^{Mr C....... sent me an email dated Mon, 25 Jan 2010 23:17:31. It said}

^{"Hi M....}

^{R...... was my ex girlfriend I didnt give her}

^{permission to use the address but she must have done}

^{sorry about this have you still got the mail and il pass it onto her meyself?}

^{Miss R.... was in the Courier Newspaper dated the Jan 7th 2010. It said that she was remanded in custody and facing a damage to property charge. Damage to property concerns us as she put her address as our property. This was wrong to do, she had no authority from us the landlords to do this.}

^{We would like her current address as soon as possible . We do not know this woman and she was not an authorised tenant of the property and should never have used the address. We may have to take legal advice over this.}

^{5. Miss W.......... was disappointed and concerned when you, Mr C......... wanted to leave, she really wanted to stay on and was very concerned that she would find no where to live before Christmas for herself and her young child. We felt for her and therefore gave her the opportunity to find someone suitable to move into the house. Miss W....... found Mr B,,,,, and wanted him to move in. Mr B...... and Miss W...... jointly agreed that they would like to rent the property from the 11 December 2009. We took Mr B..... deposit and rent (£1,050.00), and then drafted a new Tenancy Agreement. This Tenancy Agreement was never signed as Mr B.... decided not to take up the tenancy and asked for his money back. We gave Mr B.... back his money in full in the form of a cheque with a covering letter dated the 21 October 2009, which Mr B.... signed to confirm that her understood the letter and had received the cheque back. This letter confirmed that he no longer wished to take up a tenancy at 128 Maghergarran. Miss W...... did say that Mr B ...... had not moved in earlier that he was just spending some nights there, but post was noticed as addressed in Mr B.... name to 128 M......... Again this was unacceptable as Miss W..... had said that Mr B.... still had a place to live, so why did he change his address to 128 M...... when he was not a legal tenant of this rental property and had not signed a Tenancy Agreement? If he had taken up the Tenancy as planned then this would have started from the 11 December 2009. If at a later date it is found that Mr B.... resided permanent at 128 M......., then again this would be illegal and without the landlords written permission. If Mr B.... were living at 128 M......... then rent would have been required from him and also the DHSS should have been informed by Miss W........ Verbally and in emails we asked politely about this.}

^{Our email of the 5th Oct 2009 to Miss W..... said "Banked James cheque last week. Will draft up Tenancy Agreement all being well at the end of the week. If you are not back in work by the 10th Dec, which is the last day of notice period for Gary then we will have to notify DHSS of new tenant" We as landlords were trying to make sure that Mr B.... did not occupy 128 M...... without making sure you were either back at work, or if on benefits still then that the DHSS had been notified. We made this clear to you as landlords that we believed in doing the right thing and that it Mr B.... were to move in at any stage then DHSS would need to be informed if you were still on benefits and we did not want to leave it to last minute. We believe this was the correct thing to do. So if Mr B..... was living in the house before the 11 December 2009, then this was the wrong thing to do.}

^{The two above mentioned people, are two that we know of that lived at the property and had post addressed to this property during the time period your tenancy ran, they had not signed a Tenancy Agreement, had not paid any rent, and were not authorised by us as landlords to do so. If at a later date any problems arise from any person or persons other than yourselves having used this property, or the property address, then we will seek legal advice. As you Mr C...... and Miss W....... were the only authorised tenants of 128 Maghergarran during your tenancy.}

^{If the cheques sent to you, are not cashed within 7 days (£165.31 and £268.00), these cheques being sent without prejudice in full and final settlement of this tenancy, then we confirm we will cancel these cheque.}

^{We have taken legal advice and do not wish to deal with you directly anymore.}

^{Yours sincerely}

^{SO DO YOU THINK THAT I SHOULD PUT ALL THIS IN THE LETTER???}

^{Also you say she might not be cashing cheques due to the fact that if she did her bank would just use the money if she were in debt, do you think this is why, or do you think she is trying to get more out of me???}

^{THE TENANCY AGREEMENT THAT THEY HAD READS,}

(5) Not to do or suffer to be done in or upon the demised premises or any part thereof any act or thing which may be or become a nuisance damage annoyance or inconvenience to the occupiers of any of the adjoining dwellings in the neighbourhood.

(6) The Landlord may increase the rent of the demised premises by giving the Tenants two months notice in writing prior to a rent payment day specifying the amount of the new rent.

(7) The Tenants will then pay the increased amount as the Rent on and from that rent payment day.

(8) That the Tenants insures his/her belongings and furniture.

(9) The Landlord can terminate the Tenancy on the last day of the Term, or after the Term, by service of the landlord’s notice of intention to seek possession.

(10) The Tenant can terminate the Tenancy by vacating the Property on the last day of the Term, or after that by giving the landlord two months notice in writing.

(11) That the Lease is determinable with three month’s notice by either party.

THEY ARE ALSO SAYING THAT THEY ONLY HAD TO GIVE 2 MONTHS NOTICE, but how do you read this tenancy agreement, see 9 to 11?

I read it that they still had to give 3 months notice as in clause 11, as in (10) they can only give 2 months notice after the contract has ended.

THE TENANCY AGREEMENT SAYS,

1. The Landlord in consideration of the rent hereby reserved and of the covenants and agreements hereinafter contained and on the part of the Tenants to be paid done and performed agrees to let and the tenants agree to take ALL, and SINGULAR the house known as 128 ........ , Isle of Man (hereinafter called `"the demised premises") TOGETHER with the furniture and effects situate in or about the demised premises and set forth in the Inventory annexed hereto and signed by the parties hereto (hereinafter called "the said furniture and appliances") TO HOLD the same unto the Tenants for the period of eleven months and 25 days from 12 ‘O’ clock on 5th June 2009 to 12 ‘O’ clock on 30 April 2010. The Tenants shall not be entitled to occupy the demised premises' after 12 ‘O’ clock on the 30 April 2010 unless specifically agreed between the tenants and the Landlord.

SO IT RAN UNTIL THE 30 April 2010. So only 2 months notice after this, BUT before this then 3 months as in clause (11) That the Lease is determinable with three month’s notice by either party.

Is this the way that you read this???

They are insisting that they have also overpaid one months rent???

Thanks ever so much for any advice.

I really do need to send off this letter soon now as she emailed me on the 2 Feb so need to reply back, but want it to be my last reply as too stressful.

See what you think, woudl rather her cash cheques, do not really want to give cash as it looks funny.

does it cost a lot to cancel cheques???

Do you think she will take me to court as she is on benefits as far as I know, will she have a leg to stand on?

Thanks.



[Mortitia]

OMG!!

In short - it will cost you about £35 to cancel 1 cheque and double that for 2.

Should you send the letter?- well it is a bit wordy, keep it as a draft incase any proceedings are forthcoming but I would guess 90% sure that if you give this tenant cash, get the cheques back and get a reciept as described earlier then she will go away. Then you won't have to go into all this dialogue and upset yourself and her further

Contact her offering the payment in return for the cheques in a neutral place with a friend and say very little. Get a reciept for the cash. Keep it short and sweet.

You don't want to go to court and neither does she - she wants her deposit in cash - so give it to her. End of story. Re-let with a proper tenancy agreement in place and be happy.

Mortitia

[sunshinett55]

Hello thanks again for helping me.

I actually sent that letter yesterday via email, email and then attached the letter for them to read. JOINT TENANCY, so sent to Mr C.............. and Miss W................. they are not living together any more.

Mr C................ sent the email below back and seems quite happy, but Miss W............. is not, see her email below also. I have not replied back to her as the letter sent yesterday via email (and sent to her by recorded delivery today) said at the end that I did not want to corresponde with her directly anymore. the letter listed all the things that they had breached in tenancy agreement and also emphasised that we had sent the deposit cheque and these were in full and final settlement and we did not want to deal with them directly anymore. Hence will not reply back to her as feel to do so means that I am backing down and my letter means nothing. I cannot keep speaking to her as she is stressing me out.

THIS IS MY EMAIL BACK TO MR C......... and his email to me prior to this.

Dear Mr C.............

Thank you for your email and agreeing that my letters and returned deposit monies are fair.

Miss W............. sent an email shortly after yours, and cc'd you into it. I take it that you have read her email.

I will not reply back to Miss W........... (as explained in my last letter to her), as I feel that I have explained myself fully and have been fair. The letter is self explanatory.

I feel that you need to discuss things with her re the tenancy and monies returned.

I would like to draw an end to this now as we feel we have been more than fair.

Kind regards.

M............

----

EMAIL FROM MR C........... TO ME.

Tue, 9 Feb 2010 19:01:14 +0000

from Mr C .............>

>

> Dear Mrs C...........

> I find this letter fair, As for the TV license I

> have found a letter stating reference number

> CALL/IM96DA/6.5/GPD19 dated 21st September

> 2009 changing the address of the tv license I will

> scan this tomorrow and send it from work if you

> like?

> I have told Rachael firmly not to use your address

> in the future so no problems should come from this

> for you. I believe I can leave this tenancy behind

> me with no conscience as too owing you money as you

> are actually better of by me surrendering your

> deposit

> Yours Sincerely

> G........... c..............

>

HE LEFT AND DID NOT PAY THE LAST 6 WEEKS RENT. Therefore no deposit returned to him, but half the deposit left in relation to the female tenant. Miss W..........

THIS IS THE EMAIL I HAVE NOT REPLIED TO FROM THE OTHER TENANT Miss W...............

M.........,

Mr C.... maintains there were never curtains in his double bedroom, neither of us know about a step ladder and the light was not requested to be taken from the 'bill' you originally sent. The garden and subsequent excrement from my mothers dogs were removed and rectified in September so how do these things amount to £90? I yet again feel you are taking money as maybe you find yourself in financial struggle or are merely being vindictive and money grabbing as done with previous tenants.

R...... N....... was brought to your attention as staying short term in the property why did you assume she would have alternative postal address? Also as you have known for a while I can't bare her and G..... has tried also to refrain from contact with her its not our responsibility to ensure her mail gets to her this burden is hers I'm sure if possible Gary will pass her number on to you.

G...... did indeed have a TV licence and I'm sure his bank records or via the licencing company this could be proven although entirely out of date regarding this issue of deposit. Legal action has by the way clarified you cannot take monies for this kind of complaint as you have not incurred any.

The only post J..... W.... had going to 128 Maghergarran was Manx Gas bills which he arranged for as a matter of urgency for his imminent tenancy as YOU requested he fully intended to take up this tenancy however your actions jeopardised this and forced our hands to find alternative landlords as you incessant emails reg your family and tittle tattle as well as advertising of the house over a WEEK after taking excess of £1000 from his account made him feel that living in your property would be mentally straining and unbearable.

So yet again without prejudice I am refusing to accept (as proven by non banking) your cheques so far until I receive further one for £90 or receipts to prove otherwise.

WHAT DO YOU THINK, one ex teannt seems ok, the other one is not happy, but why should I back down, she lets herself down yet again, there were to be NO PETS and she let her mothers dog stay!!! she admits it again in this email! I never gave permission for anyone to stay and use address! There were curtains at windows! There was a step up stool etc, etc. WHAT DO YOU THINK I SHOULD DO?

THANKS FOR HELP AND ADVICE APPRECIATED REALLY IT IS

[Chestnut]

If it's all it takes to draw a line, just pay your tenant the £90!

I'm sorry, but the shear length of your stuff is enough to give anyone grief.

Landlords win some and loose some. I know from experience.

The best advice I've had from this site is to cut your losses and move on. I agree with Mortitia. Look forward to new tenants, do the landlord job as properly as you can, and be happy.

[Selkirk]

Wow! What a carry on.

My opinion only.

To be honest I thought it was you that needed the help - Psychological.

Having read through your post you actually come across as very thoughtful and caring, which may be partly the problem. You are too nice to be a landlord – this can be a tough business.

Firstly anybody who gets emotionally involved with their property is on a loser, it becomes the home of the Tenant and everyone lives their lives differently and secondly some people will always try to take advantage whenever they think they can, they mistake kindness for stupidity.

Put a new cooker in because they didn’t like the one there! Some time ago I thought it would be nice to leave a washing machine at a property as it was only a few months old but it packed up 18 months later and the tenant was on the phone telling me this that and the other so I said I’d sort it out the following day, I did, I removed it.

For your current problem what’s done is done, let the cheques stand don’t cancel (they’ll expire in six months anyway). The TV license, gas, electric and anything else not in your name are not your problem.

Get the property back and up to scratch and let as soon as.

Going forward I think you should consider a professional letting agency, either management or on a let only basis, they will be able to cover things like inventory, credit checks, deposit and tenancy agreement.

Draw a line under this one and call it experience.

Good Luck

Selkirk

p.s. change the locks as soon as you have posession.

[sunshinett55]

Wow! What a carry on.

My opinion only.

To be honest I thought it was you that needed the help - Psychological.

Having read through your post you actually come across as very thoughtful and caring, which may be partly the problem. You are too nice to be a landlord – this can be a tough business.

Firstly anybody who gets emotionally involved with their property is on a loser, it becomes the home of the Tenant and everyone lives their lives differently and secondly some people will always try to take advantage whenever they think they can, they mistake kindness for stupidity.

Put a new cooker in because they didn't like the one there! Some time ago I thought it would be nice to leave a washing machine at a property as it was only a few months old but it packed up 18 months later and the tenant was on the phone telling me this that and the other so I said I'd sort it out the following day, I did, I removed it.

For your current problem what's done is done, let the cheques stand don't cancel (they'll expire in six months anyway). The TV license, gas, electric and anything else not in your name are not your problem.

Get the property back and up to scratch and let as soon as.

Going forward I think you should consider a professional letting agency, either management or on a let only basis, they will be able to cover things like inventory, credit checks, deposit and tenancy agreement.

Draw a line under this one and call it experience.

Good Luck

Selkirk

p.s. change the locks as soon as you have posession.

Hello Selkirk

thank you for your reply. This is the only small hse that we have, a modern 3 bed semi, garage and conservatory. We bought it in aug 2007, redecorated in magnolia etc, and then let in Oct 2007. First lot of tenants a nightmare, smoked, did not keep it clean. They did not get any of their deposit monies back, had to buy new carpets as cig holes in them, and really, really dirty.

These last tenants (2 sharing), will not cancel the cheques otherwise I might be in the wrong, but said that anyway in letter, hopefully to make them cash them and draw an end to all ofthis. But they have not cashed cheques, yet! Still emailing me saying I am unfair. Anyway a bit afraid one will take me to court as on benefits, and then I will have extra costs. But they think they are owed £90 more, but I will not pay. HOpefully if they take this to a solicitor he will say that they do not have a case or not worth the paperwork for them to take to court seeing its only £90. But actually like I said as far as I am concerned the £90 is not owed.

Prob is that did not know this before they took up tenancy, but where I live it is fairly small and they acutally knew the last tenants (they seem to go to the same pubs) and therefore aware that I did not return any of their deposit monies. They think that I was unfair of course and vindictive, thats their words.

So would you not reply to any of their emails now? Only reply if you get a letter from a solicitor re this?

the locks on hse were changed last time, and I used a security co. and put locks on that you can so say only get from them, so that you have to take ID to get keys cut from them. Dont know if anyone acutally can get round this, say take to local shops and persuade someone to cut keys, but hopefully not.

Are you a landlord of several houses? Have you been a landlord for long? Do you fully manage your properties and do your own tenancy agreements? How do you handle the deposit returns? Over here on IOM we keep the tenants dep ourselves, we do not have a depositers scheme like I think you do across and the desposit is kept without interest being added.

Do you provide tenants with the white goods, cooker, fridge, freezer, wash machine, dryer?

I bought new white goods for hse in Sept 2007. July 2009 when this last of tenants in, they said they had prob with cooker and lots of smoke, so replaced straightaway. Inventory listed cooker.

Have hse with new tenants in, had to sell all white goods as did not want to store at mine. They brought their own. Do you think this is a better idea and then if something goes bust they have to replace not you? is this the way that you work?

Most lets here on IOM are with teh white goods, tenants seem to expect them I think.

Well nice to know you and thanks for all your help. Its nice to keep in contact with other landlords.

[Selkirk]

Hi

I just try to do things properly and fairly, if you try and cut corners you end up paying in the long run. The only time you have to judge whether a tenant is right or wrong for your property is at the start so never compromise.

It's probably difficult in a small community but unless you take a stand your next tenant may look to take advantage on known information and you'll be come a laughing stock, maybe another reason to employ a letting agent.

I always let unfurnished and do not supply any white goods for two reasons, I don't have to maintain them and tenants, for some reason, seem to look after their owns goods better. The stats also say that a tenant will stay in an unfurnished property longer and furnishing does not command that much more rent. So just leave the minimum there, carpets, curtains, lights etc and let it as is, obviously whoever takes it on knows there's nothing in there.

cheers

Selkirk

[sunshinett55]

Hi

I just try to do things properly and fairly, if you try and cut corners you end up paying in the long run. The only time you have to judge whether a tenant is right or wrong for your property is at the start so never compromise.

It's probably difficult in a small community but unless you take a stand your next tenant may look to take advantage on known information and you'll be come a laughing stock, maybe another reason to employ a letting agent.

I always let unfurnished and do not supply any white goods for two reasons, I don't have to maintain them and tenants, for some reason, seem to look after their owns goods better. The stats also say that a tenant will stay in an unfurnished property longer and furnishing does not command that much more rent. So just leave the minimum there, carpets, curtains, lights etc and let it as is, obviously whoever takes it on knows there's nothing in there.

cheers

Selkirk

Hello Selkirk

Sounds like you are really experienced, how long have you been a landlord? do you have many properties?

Yes it is good that current tenants have own white goods. Now sold all the ones that were there so hopefully these tenants will stay a while and like you say they are then responsible for any repairs or replacements so a much better idea.

Prob is that here on the ISLE OF MAN even if unfurnished, and like you say that is what most want and that is what ours really is expect for carpets and curtains, here on IOM they expect the white goods to be provided. I guess it is diff across?

But would rather not have to provide all those dear items as costly to buy and maintain.

Nice to talk to you.

Have a nice day.