Fire alarm and Emergency Lighting Inspections

[Nathalie]

Hi,

I'm hoping that someone could clarify this for me. I have just had to pay £340 to have both my fire alarm and emergency lighting inspected. Now I don't have an issue with the inspections, these are obviously a necessity, however to my amazement, as I watched the electrician carry out the inspections, it dawned on me that a 10 year old could do it (literally) and I was paying hundreds of pounds to get it done by an 'expert'.

To be exact this is what the tests involved.

Emergency lighting: switch on emergency lights for 3 hours to see if they last

Fire alarm: spray a smoke substitute (available from any electrical retailer) into smoke detectors to see if alarm goes off

This was the first time I had these inspections done, so I didn't know what they involved, and I assumed I needed a qualified electrician to get it done and certify them. What I would like to know is was this assumption right? Is that part of the regulations, it didn't seem clear to me in the LACORS literature. Ideally I would like to carry out these tests myself in future instead of forking out all that money to get someone else to do a job I can do myself. If it was more complicated, and required specific skills (like a periodic inspection of fixed wiring) then I would be happy to pay for it, but otherwise it seems pointless to waste that money. Of course if any issues that do come up then I would need to call in an electrician to do the remedial work (for example I needed 1 emergency light and 1 smoke detector replaced which involved wiring - which cost extra).

So what I'm wondering is, can I legally do this myself? Or must it be done by a professional? The obvious difference being I can't provide the piece of paper to certify it. By the way this is regarding the annual inspections, not the intermediary ones, like weekly, or monthly.

Thanks!

Nathalie

[snorkerz]

If the inspections are for a HMO then you need a qualified electrician to do them. If it's not an HMO then the only obligation you have is to ensure the electrics are safe. If you ever had to prove so, I believe a record of your own test (as described in your post) would be perfectly sufficient proof - especially if signed by the tenant at the time.

[Nathalie]

sigh... it is an HMO. I might ask the government to insist the inspections are more complex and involved so I don't feel like I'm being robbed each time. Also just rechecked the paperwork and the fire alarm system needs inspecting every 6 months. So that's £500+ year minimum. It grates.

[Chestnut]

Fyldeboy,

In this context for an HMO, out of interest what is meant by a "qualified electrician"?

i.e. What qualifications are needed to inspect emergency lighting and fire alarm? Given this description of the tests is it merely the ability to produce an invoice for a large sum on headed notepaper?

[snorkerz]

The engineer needs to be a member of one of the trade associations. As well as charging the electrician a fortune every year, they will do regular inspections of work and (iirc) insist on repeated re-tests every X years.

Here's some info that might help: http://www.niceic.com/en/contractor/articl...&ARTICLE=13

[Chestnut]

Thanks for information!

No problem with that provided that for the charge made (>£300) a full and proper inspection is done, not just emergency lighting and fire alarm.

I recently paid an electrician from an affiliated company about £250 for a full periodic inspection (DPIR) which included four distribution boxes, overload and RCD trip functions, heating circuits and a variety of sockets etc. etc.

The internal connections of every component were checked for loose screws, bare copper wires, broken trunking, poor DIY work etc. etc. It took him all day and included labelling of components and a comprehensive report coded according to urgency to enable subsequent rectification where necessary.

Good value, I would think.

[Nathalie]

I agree that is good value for money, I have a periodic inspection for fixed wiring coming up, which I think is similar to what you had. I've got the quote in and it's £300. That I'm ok with because I know it's a huge property and it will be a very involved job. He's NICEIC also, (I only use NICEIC), but the work he's doing and the work that other company did are not even on the same level. But I did get 3 quotes for the fire alarm and emergency lighting inspections and they were all more or less the same.

I've sent an e-mail to NICEIC to see what can be done and to get some clarification on the regulations because quite frankly I don't care how much those engineers pay to be NICEIC or to be qualified. Those particular inspections did not need any 'expertise' and were not worth £340.

[snorkerz]

I may have to take back my original comment about the electrician being a member of a trade association. A little further research shows that the legislation only states 'a suitably qualified person', but then doesn't define what constitutes 'suitably qualified'.

I am guessing 'suitably qualified' is a step up from 'competent person', which is what you or I would be if we did it!

It is obviously an definition which is open to interpretation. As the local authority are in charge of this, I suggest you enquire of them just who can do the test - their definition is the one that matters. If you're a licensed HMO, then I guess it will be the people who issued your licence.

[Chestnut]

Yes, one must follow the requirements of the HMO licence.

I would take a "suitably qualified" person to be someone who is trading regularly and keeps abreast of the BS 7671 regulations. There are good electricians about who decide not to afford the trade affiliation fees. It's annoying to be ripped off by the mere need for some association hieroglyphics on an invoice.

If the licence requires NICEIC or similar so be it - but couldn't the emergency lighting and alarms be then included as part of the periodic inspection package?

[Nathalie]

Thanks, that's a good idea, I'll contact the council, because at the end of the day, they're the ones that know what they want... and while I'm at it, if they still say the same thing, I'll moan to them too. Essentially the only thing I'm paying for is the certificate. Expensive piece of paper!

The electrician doing the periodic inspection actually wanted the emergency lighting and fire alarm certs before he started, so it's not part of his periodic inspection, but then it is specifically the fixed wiring he's doing (the 5 yearly inspection). I don't believe it has to be NICEIC for HMOs, but there is a certain level of relief that comes from using one, I'm too afraid of using an electrician with no affiliations as there are too many rogue traders out there. My pregnant neighbour brought an electrician in to do quite a bit of rewiring in her house, cost her £1000 and they found out several weeks after he had finished that in fact he had done nothing at all and they had no way of getting their money back. Also for the last couple of years I had been using an electrician that had been recommended to me, only to find out recently that half his work was wrong (i.e. did not meet regulations, but it was safe). Fortunately he just became NICEIC so I made him remedy all his work for free, not that I am going to use him again, even if he is legit now. Using NICEIC is a reassurance, but I don't think one should have to pay for it, having an electrician we can 'trust' should just be the way it is.

[Chestnut]

I have also done a little further research..... I think emergency lighting and fire alarms may have different BS compliance regulations from the fixed wiring one that I mentioned earlier.

Even though the engineer may only do a few simple tests you pay for his correct understanding of how the systems should be installed, how to test them correctly, and provision of any special equipment to do so. A trade association should ensure that you get a suitably trained and qualified person.

[Nathalie]

I contacted the NICEIC for clarification and this was their response:

"Fire Alarm & Emergency lighting Tests

Guidance on the requirements can be found in the relevant British Standards, BS 5839 Part 1 2008 for fire alarms and BS 5266 Part 1 2005 for Emergency Lighting.

Re Fire Alarms.

It is essential that the system is subject to periodic inspection and servicing so that unrevealed faults are identified, preventive measures can be taken to ensure the continued reliability of the system, false alarm problems are identified and suitably addressed, and that the user is made aware of any changes to the building that affect the protection afforded by the system.

Periodic inspection and servicing needs to be carried out by a competent person with specialist knowledge of fire detection and alarm systems, including knowledge of the causes of false alarms, sufficient information regarding the system, and adequate access to spares.

This will normally be an outside fire alarm servicing organisation: care needs to be taken to ensure that, if, for example, in-house employees are used for this task, they have equivalent competence to the technicians of a typical fire alarm servicing organisation. Competence of fire alarm servicing organisations can be assured by the use of organisations that are third party certificated by a UKAS-certificated certification body. (NICEIC)

Re - Emergency Lighting Testing

These should be carried out as detailed in the British Standard, normally monthly functional testing and an annual full duration test. (also six monthly depending on system age)

This should be carried out by a responsible and competent person, able to carry out the correct tests and identify system faults. The condition of lamps and correct operation of charging system should be checked.

Records

A logbook should be maintained for both systems, and on completion of the tests a test certificate issued for both systems."

Ok so I accept now that the fire alarm system needs to be tested by an engineer, due to the potential complexity of any faults etc that only an engineer would see (I will probably use a different company next time because I am sure they didn't check the panel for issues)... However it seems to me that I could do the emergency lighting test myself. But... then at the end they say that a test certificate is required for BOTH systems. So in the case of emergency lighting I am definitely paying £150+ VAT for just a piece of paper. I will take this up with the NICEIC and the council.

[Chestnut]

Interesting information from NICEIC.

It indicates to me that to be competent to do either of these tests at the very least one would need to be familiar with the relevant British Standard quoted, which will define the tests and procedures required.

BS5266-1:2005 for emergency lighting costs £138 from BSI to non-members, hence probably quite complex. However advice and guidance for inspections and test procedures are in the more recent BS5266-10:2008 @ £114.

Unless you know exactly what you are doing I suggest that using a trained contractor is probably better value.

[Nathalie]

According to what I have read and what I was told by the NICEIC contractor the annual test is switching the lights on for 3 hours and that is all the test consisted of - (the only reason for using a contractor is for the piece of paper). Hardly quantum physics. There are different types of emergency lighting systems, however mine is probably the most basic as it's a residential home, not an office block. Each light has its own battery, if there is a problem with the charging system this will be indicated through the led on the light. Condition of lamps - well again this can be ascertained through visual inspection and performance. There is unfortunately no value in getting a "trained" contractor to do the emergency lighting test in my case. Though, again if it was actually a more complicated system then yes no doubt there is. It would be worth purchasing those regulations, seeing as they're cheaper than an inspection anyway! Thanks.

[Nathalie]

Incidentally, I asked the NICEIC about their courses on emergency lighting and fire alarm systems and whether they were available to the general public - I just received a reply and they said that they are open to persons like myself who want to gain "competence" to enable one to carry out the inspections according to British standards. Seeing as the cost is comparable to one inspection, it's definitely worth doing.

[Chestnut]

That is worth knowing about the 'competence' training courses. Thanks for the information - I will pass it on to my own management.

[christhespark]

Incidentally, I asked the NICEIC about their courses on emergency lighting and fire alarm systems and whether they were available to the general public - I just received a reply and they said that they are open to persons like myself who want to gain "competence" to enable one to carry out the inspections according to British standards. Seeing as the cost is comparable to one inspection, it's definitely worth doing.

I`m not covering up for rip off merchants, and the charges do seem high, but i am a Landlord and NICEIC approved Electrician.

Part of the "Inspection" for both Fire alarm (BS5839) and Emergency Lighting (BS 5266) are visual inspections to ensure that coverage is adequate, IE lighting at every required position, correct detection for required application, effects of improvements made since installation (ie fitting fire doors reducing sound db levels for alarm sounders). Anyone wishing to buy, read and be examined on both BS specs is welcome to try and apply the standard - but beware - if you miss anything - you are liable for the installation if you sign an NICEIC form stating such an installation is up to standard when it is not. If the unthinkable happens, Jail is more likely than a fine.

[Nathalie]

I`m not covering up for rip off merchants, and the charges do seem high, but i am a Landlord and NICEIC approved Electrician.

Part of the "Inspection" for both Fire alarm (BS5839) and Emergency Lighting (BS 5266) are visual inspections to ensure that coverage is adequate, IE lighting at every required position, correct detection for required application, effects of improvements made since installation (ie fitting fire doors reducing sound db levels for alarm sounders). Anyone wishing to buy, read and be examined on both BS specs is welcome to try and apply the standard - but beware - if you miss anything - you are liable for the installation if you sign an NICEIC form stating such an installation is up to standard when it is not. If the unthinkable happens, Jail is more likely than a fine.

I agree and fortunately I am not one that takes these responsibilities lightly. I do so much research (probably too much) on subjects that I am often correcting solicitors, accountants and funnily enough electricians. Just my last inspection involved an NICEIC electrician who didn't know how to to test a heat alarm, I had to tell him how. I have no hesitation in undertaking such a course as I know my capabilities, but people who do this need to be the type to take it seriously. For me, jail/fine, whatever, my tenants already have a higher standard of safety than legally required and are definitely safer than probably at least 90% of households in the UK.