cynet Posted November 18, 2008 Report Share Posted November 18, 2008 Hello All For the past 12 months I have had my studio flat rented out through a letting agents. Past 6 months have had the property on the market which I finally accepted a bid for it at the end of september. In the august the tennant did a runner and the letting agents said to me they could get someone else to the flat is sold. I agreed only that who ever moved in the contract for the tennant would be a month to month contract and the letting agent agreed and said no problem. So the tennant moved in on Aug 30 and as I stated by the end of sept it had been sold but would take a few weeks for it to go through. So I activated the months notice with the letting agents on the 14th october and also sent this a letter by my self with that this was the case. I phoned the letting agents on the 14th october just to say activate the notice and they said no problem. Goto the property on the 17th of this month and find the tennant is still there and the letting agents have failed to activate the months notice with her. Get on to the phone to the letting agents who then tell me they gave her a 3 month contract and they activated the 2 months notice from the 30th september. This was news to me and that I asked for a month to month and they issued a 3 month to the tennant without my agreement. If I would of know this would of left the flat empty. The other thing is I have had no money from the letting agents since Oct 7th and they are suppose to pay me once a month and so far this month nothing. When I questioned them about that the letting agent he told me he wants 600 pounds as to finish the contract early as it is finishing the agreement early, the agreement I never agreed to. Also have signed no legal documents with this letting agents on all the 12 months I have been with them they have not had my signature or anything in writing from me, it has all been verbal. I need help as I need to sell the flat as I am nearly broke and cant afford the mortgage as I have to care for my sick wife. Can anyone please help me Thank You Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lauralivesartnouveau Posted November 18, 2008 Report Share Posted November 18, 2008 Hi David My what a terrible situation. I am afraid it might be worse than you think. Although your agent may have issued a three month tenancy under the 1988/1996 housing acts termination cant be enforced until the end of six months. Even then it can take a further 3 to six months after that to complete an eviction through the courts via a bailiff. So in your case if the tenancy started in 30th August then the earliest enforceable notice would be the 1st March 2009. Then you apply to the court £150 + solicitor fee for a possession order. This takes around a month for judgement and then a few weeks for the bailiff £95 + costs so round about Easter would be a realistic time scale for legal possession. In the round with your situation £600 seems like a good deal. As for your letting agent they will probably fob you off somehow. At the end of the day if it was possible to do it sooner we would all like to know. The tenant would probably stop paying the rent for most of that period and could trash the place in retaliation (its happened to me). Yours Oliver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cynet Posted November 19, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 19, 2008 Thank you Oliver for the reply :-)) I am in big trouble then not being able to cover the mortgage now and my money has run out, not sure where I can go from here but thank you for giving me a honest and straight answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gee Posted November 19, 2008 Report Share Posted November 19, 2008 David, Whilst it sounds a mess, all is not lost. Fist check if the agents belong to any trade organisation - RICS, ARLA etc and complain to them. However because there is no contract it is doubtful they do belong to any organisation and they are just incompetant, grasping cowboys. In this instance, I would seek advice/complain to Trading Standards at your Local Authority, who should be able to put pressure on the agents to release the rent owing and hopefully end the agency agreement. After all if there is written agreement, then the agent can't claim he is entitled to three months notice and £600. I would also see CAB to see what they recommend. Ask both organisations for advice in obtaining compensation for the the wrong advice any tenancy which was issued by the agents although this is also difficult to prove. Good luck and keep us advised of your progress. Gee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cynet Posted November 20, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2008 Thank you Geewiz :-) They do not belong to any govering body and also tryed trading standards and they stated it is not there field and they said try the ones you suggested but as they are not part of them they are like what you say cowboys. My solicitor has kept trying and trying to get hold of the owner of the letting agents to no avail. Am I suprised no not really and as they wont deal with me anymore on the phone as sadly I lost it with them on the phone and it's not as if I live round the corner from these people. Have a sick wife to care for and they know my background situation and they do this and at the end of the day there is no honour amongst thieves and thats exactly what they are. Will Keep you updated with the situation many thanks for the support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Dewsberry Posted November 20, 2008 Report Share Posted November 20, 2008 What is position with the Tenant ? do they want to stay ..or go ? and when ? Can you negotiate a deal with T to leave early ? ....If neccessary PAY T to leave. Re LA: Write LOA(letter of action) demanding rent payment to date within 7 days, also inform them that if cleared funds not received within 7 days Debt collector will be immediately instructed and 15% dc fee will be payable by LA along with any costs incurred by DC. Is prop purchaser prepared to wait a bit to get prop ? In short get very active in a productive manner ! The Rodent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cynet Posted November 22, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2008 What is position with the Tenant ? do they want to stay ..or go ? and when ? Can you negotiate a deal with T to leave early ? ....If neccessary PAY T to leave. Re LA: Write LOA(letter of action) demanding rent payment to date within 7 days, also inform them that if cleared funds not received within 7 days Debt collector will be immediately instructed and 15% dc fee will be payable by LA along with any costs incurred by DC. Is prop purchaser prepared to wait a bit to get prop ? In short get very active in a productive manner ! The Rodent The tennant is being controlled by the letting agent who has promised her this and that so the lady does not want to deal with me even though she knows she has paid them but they have not paid me. Have sent a letter of action now to reclaim the money he owes me but I have still no date to if or when she is moving out and my solicitor can still not get hold of him as he never returns there calls. The purchaser is prepared to wait for another few weeks as she has paid out herself like myself but if I dont sell because of this I will be declared bankrupt as I can no longer afford to pay the mortgage and there is no way forward from that. Thank you Rodent for the information it is much appricated will keep you updated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selkirk Posted November 22, 2008 Report Share Posted November 22, 2008 Just my view. Instruct DC now they are taking the piss and will hang it out as long as they can, tell the T if it's not sorted out she will be evicted as a result anyway. I wonder if T is a relative of LA? Keep a note of all letters, phone calls etc. Tell buyer you will knock off £500 if she can hold out a bit longer. good luck cheers Selkirk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cynet Posted November 23, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2008 Hello Selkirk From my information the lady is not related to anyone to the LA but they are promising her a new place to goto in due course. So basically they are trying to keep hold of her services as long as they can but with my place as a cash cow machine. So be better right now to activate the Dc??? Have sent them a letter already giving them 7 days to cough up. This situation will break me if it continues and will more than likely have to offer the buyer a cash incentive to hold on even though I cant afford it. What annoys me the most is that this guy at the LA is kicking me down when I am down on my luck already and he knows my background that I am caring for my sick wife who wont get better now how evil is that of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Dewsberry Posted November 23, 2008 Report Share Posted November 23, 2008 Hello Selkirk From my information the lady is not related to anyone to the LA but they are promising her a new place to goto in due course. So basically they are trying to keep hold of her services as long as they can but with my place as a cash cow machine. So be better right now to activate the Dc??? Have sent them a letter already giving them 7 days to cough up. This situation will break me if it continues and will more than likely have to offer the buyer a cash incentive to hold on even though I cant afford it. What annoys me the most is that this guy at the LA is kicking me down when I am down on my luck already and he knows my background that I am caring for my sick wife who wont get better now how evil is that of him. In order to charge LA the DC fee a LOA and time frame MUST be "inserted" and time frame allowed to pass ...or you (LL) will have to pay DC fee. You are on a sticky wicket as court will NOT evict until fixed period of 6 mths is up. If T waitng for further accom (and you looking at going bc) then i would be making friends with T quick smart ...get in your car and take her out on viewings for the day ....then offer her £500 towards "moving costs" .....and get HER OUT so you can complete sale...this is much more urgent than the LA (for a min!) 2 pronged efficient and swift attack required ........If you facing bc then negotiate with T until you get her out. Also make your offer of "cash help" time related ie.....out within 1/2/3/ weeks etc Speak to buyer and keep them on the boil ...discount if necesary ...if it costs you a cuople of grand this has to better than going bc .? The Rodent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Preston Posted November 23, 2008 Report Share Posted November 23, 2008 Hi You have been given some good advice by earlier contributors. Essentially, your agent should'nt have advised you to attempt a short term let (less than 6 months) in the first place. There is a way of doing it - something called a tenancy at will - but this mechanism is very rare, requires specialist legal advice and has been little tested by the courts in recent decades in a residential context (most of the case law relates to commercial lets). You could also have tried a licence - the argument being that both parties were aware that it was a short term arrangement with no intention to create long term legal relations. There is more case law on this in recent years, but most of it has gone against the landlord becuase the courts have seen this it as a "ruse" to avoid security of tenure. So, both of these options are for the specialist landlord in very specific circumstances and not for the generalist buy to let landlord. Although I have used tenancies at will and licences in my working life, I wouldnt dream of doing so for my buy to lets. So, the three courses of action that have already been outlined seem sensible to me, namely: a) negotiate with the tenant complain to and about the agent c) sue the agent (assuming you have some evidence to proove their errors). Best of luck. Preston Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cynet Posted November 28, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 28, 2008 Hi You have been given some good advice by earlier contributors. Essentially, your agent should'nt have advised you to attempt a short term let (less than 6 months) in the first place. There is a way of doing it - something called a tenancy at will - but this mechanism is very rare, requires specialist legal advice and has been little tested by the courts in recent decades in a residential context (most of the case law relates to commercial lets). You could also have tried a licence - the argument being that both parties were aware that it was a short term arrangement with no intention to create long term legal relations. There is more case law on this in recent years, but most of it has gone against the landlord becuase the courts have seen this it as a "ruse" to avoid security of tenure. So, both of these options are for the specialist landlord in very specific circumstances and not for the generalist buy to let landlord. Although I have used tenancies at will and licences in my working life, I wouldnt dream of doing so for my buy to lets. So, the three courses of action that have already been outlined seem sensible to me, namely: a) negotiate with the tenant complain to and about the agent c) sue the agent (assuming you have some evidence to proove their errors). Best of luck. Preston Quick question I need help with if the letting agent has given a 12 month tennants agreement to the person in my flat and I have not signed anything or agreed to it in the first place and the letting agent owner has signed on my behalf even though it was not what I agreed to is this fraud and is it legal the tennacy agreement??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Preston Posted November 28, 2008 Report Share Posted November 28, 2008 Hi Legally, if you have not given authority to the agent to enter into an agreement on your behalf, then they cannot do so. However, proving this might be tricky. As you say, in your favour you havent signed anything. On the other hand, you did instruct your agent to find a tenant and you would need to convince a court - if it got that far - that you only wanted one for 3 months when a six month AST is the "default" minimum. Did you give the instructions in writing? Also against you is the fact that you have been trying to recover the rent that is owed to you - this may be taken as implied acceptance of the current arrangement? I can see why you might want to try this argument and in your predicament I would probably give it a go too, but from what you have said your chances seem slim, unless you have some other evidence? Good luck anyway. Preston Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cynet Posted November 29, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 29, 2008 Hello Preston Thank you for your help. Did not put anything in writing but did have my flat for sale through his agency until I got fed up with there selling style and went for a second estate agent next door to thier shop. He knew the place was on the market cant believe that he would stoop so low to give out a lengthy contract when it could be anytime for me to sell as I was selling the flat way under its market value. He owes me 2 months money now but that did cover the mortgage but now defaulted and have them on my back now. Thinking of going bankrupt now as the buyer is going to pull out and who can blame them but sorting that guy out at the LA is another matter. Have solicitor on monday to try and do something about it so fingers crossed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Preston Posted November 29, 2008 Report Share Posted November 29, 2008 Hi Getting specialist advice seems like a good idea to me, so good luck with that. It really does seem like your agent needs sorting out! On the issue of bankruptcy, it might also be worth getting some specialist advice before going down that road - not from one of these firms that charges you £1,500 and promises to get your debts written off, but from one of the free services available run by CABs and local councils. There are sometimes alternatives to full bankruptcy which have less negative consequences for you. Anyway, I hope things go well for you. Preston Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cynet Posted December 3, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 3, 2008 Hello Preston :-)) Saw a solicitor and even though he gave a 12 month contract to the tennant behind my back there is nothing I can legally do. Have got a debt collector on to them now and to make matters worst the owner of the letting agents have made threats to my me and my family by sending some heavies round to shut me up, have to remind my self here whos the one who has been lied to and duped. Now have got a debt collector firm on to them now and will be going up there this week to confront the scum bag who has made me default on my mortgage cost me the sale of my property by giving the tennant a 12 month contract and for putting the phone down on me and not returning my phone calls, its going to be on hell of a meeting for me as they are not expecting me to come up. Will keep you posted and if anyone reads this topic post just be careful when dealing with letting agents make sure they are under a body regulator that is a must if not dont bother with them as they can do as they please you have been warned. Kind Regards David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Preston Posted December 3, 2008 Report Share Posted December 3, 2008 Hi Thats a shame, but I'm not really surprised by the legal advice, things werent really stacked in your favour. It sounds like things are getting a bit hairy - my advice would be very careful not to put yourself in a position where criticism could be levelled at you. Report threats to the police. If you have face to face meetings, take an independent witness if you can. Stay measured and professional and pursue your debt through the courts. It strikes me that they are not the type to respond to direct confrontation? Anyway, good luck and certainly dont give up, just be careful! Preston Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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