croy Bay Posted August 7, 2008 Report Share Posted August 7, 2008 We have had two cases recently whereby when we finally got the tenants out we went through the Small Claims Court to try to recover debts owing. Both were approved by the court but unfortunately both Ex-T were by then on DSS. The first claim (£1600 was to be paid off £10 per fortnight. We never received a bean. The second Ex-T didn’t bother to answer the summons and we were awarded full payment. This again we didn’t receive. The court recommended we speak to a sheriff officer who told us it’s unlikely we would see any of that money. I enquired for info from two debt collection agencies. The first overly confident wanted £600 upfront and the second said we would be wasting our time. Any advice would be appreciated. When both parties took up their tenancies they were employed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Dewsberry Posted August 7, 2008 Report Share Posted August 7, 2008 Put no win no fee dc onto them .......with costs put onto T debt ...........DC can keep debt "live" for many years ...so when T gets back on their feet ....you stand half a chance of getting something back ........ Next time instruct dc immediately ...to show you mean biz and stand a far greater chance of collecting debt The Rodent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J4L Posted August 8, 2008 Report Share Posted August 8, 2008 I've not been a great fan of using DC's in the first instance as Simon often suggests but after speaking with the agency in great detail it appears that should LL's attempt court retrieval there is only a 33% chance that you'll get the award, out of that 33%, 11% will get their money in full, 11% will get their money at a ridiculous amount per week (i.e. about a £1) and the remainding 11% will get NOTHING. If you look at the success rate of a DC agency (I think most say around 80%) then the better bet is to try this route first, and for the sake of around 28 days it's got to be worth a go. Plus the fact if they are no win no fee it's cost you nothing but time to have a go. Please excuse my figures above if anyone actually KNOWS them to be wrong but my conversation yesterday was mobile to mobile (crackly) and they may well be incorrect or a little out. Suffice to say, the gist of the conversation WAS that you've got nothing to lose by trying this method first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Dewsberry Posted August 8, 2008 Report Share Posted August 8, 2008 Well well well.!!!!!..........!!!!!!!!!!!.............!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm loving this !!haha Gareth recomanding a dc ...............just been outside to check for flying pigs !!!!! I believe you are now well into your LA apprenticeship ......i did suggest we revisit "the discussion" after you had experienced 12 mths (ish) of managing .....you have beaten me to it LOL So we finally agree that dc is a natural, neccesary, effective part of debt collecting process ...Not bullying, harrassmet or getting other people to fight your battles..... cant believe i spent so much time and effort in the past trying to promote this when all it took was a dc to actually tell you !!!!!!!!!haha Indeed a very wise move to involve(threat of ...lets not forget that bit ) at the earliest juncture ......... Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J4L Posted August 9, 2008 Report Share Posted August 9, 2008 To be fair I've never had to go down either route up to now and that's why I was so against the DC idea last year. It DID appear that the only right and proper way was to go via the courts because the DC route seemed a little heavy initially. Like I've said we've taken over a large portfolio of properties that CAME with lots of problems. These were down to the outgoing agent. To date we have not had ONE problem with any of the Tenants we have installed ourselves, thus our experience was minimal in this area. Now I'm sorting out another agents mess we are gaining experience in this area and with this knowledge I will hold my hands up and agree with Simon that yes, it has to be worth a shot before one heads for the courts. One 'major' thing I have learnt is that the scum out there that (think they) 'know' how to beat the system generally think you HAVE to take them to court to regain possession AND to get any outstanding monies. I wrote a very nice letter to someone the other day effectively saying we required posession and would be using a DC to retrieve the monies outstanding. I had attempted phone calls to these people for days but they wouldn't/didn't answer but as soon as they had the letter they called me to say "you're NOT ALLOWED to get DC onto us for money you have to go to the courts FIRST" Obviously my answer was that I can do what I like legally, when I like to retrieve money off you if you owe it to me and if I decide to go down that route I will. Suffice to say they moved out in a week and we got a repayment proposal which to now they've been paying. And it cost me nothing more than a stamp! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Dewsberry Posted August 9, 2008 Report Share Posted August 9, 2008 "scum" ....now you are beginning to sound like a "rogue" LL not a LA !!!!!!! LOL Amazing how a bit of experience changes views on this ... are you refering to "disadvantaged" tenants who are desperate and about to become homeless .....shame on you for treating them with such contempt ...one day may be you will be in this position yourself ........ Well What another turn up for the books .......as stated many times previously there is no substitute for experience and now you are getting it !!!!!!!!! The Rodent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J4L Posted August 9, 2008 Report Share Posted August 9, 2008 I never said there wasn't scum out there I just said that I'd not come across them. and that's because we only "do" good tenants. The scum were an inheritance so I don't mind because they are gone and now we'll put 'decent' tenants in!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Dewsberry Posted August 9, 2008 Report Share Posted August 9, 2008 Another thing you WILL find in due course ..............an A1 perfect T can (and does!) Turn into your worst nightmare at the drop of a hat ............. Let us know (not IF) but WHEN you get one !!!!!!!!! The Rodent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GPEL Posted August 13, 2008 Report Share Posted August 13, 2008 It's just a matter of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUGAR Posted August 13, 2008 Report Share Posted August 13, 2008 omg some of you are very harsh and cynical....lol There but for the grace of god go I Not all tenants who get into a mess have the intention of doing so when they start a tenancy. S*** happens and no one can predict if they are goin to lose thier jobs etc. Just like those who take out loans, hp or mortgages under good faith. Im sure you wouldnt call your nxt door neighbour scum if his house was being reposessed because he had been made redundent and interest rates had gone up and he could no longer afford his cc payments, car payments and mortgage would you. Alot of peeps who get into debt get scarred that they cannot cover their out-goings this perpetuates the problem of owing the money and makes them scarred and hide even more = result less payments being made. Glad to see that you find legal recourse to retrieving your money tho Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Dewsberry Posted August 13, 2008 Report Share Posted August 13, 2008 suq you sound like J4L a year ago ...........after you have had a few of these T and had your trousers well and truly yanked down we will have the conversation again!!! It is not so much the situation they are in but the way they chose to handle it that causes serious further problems (to us LL)!! The Rodent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GPEL Posted August 13, 2008 Report Share Posted August 13, 2008 Yep, it's not what they do but the way that they do it. Avoid calls, lie, excuses, stall, incur further debt, GET AGGRESSIVE, take frustrations out on your property, duck behind legislation, take council advice to get involuntarily evicted, so on and so on. It's amazing how many can't pay the rent because their cards been cloned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUGAR Posted August 13, 2008 Report Share Posted August 13, 2008 I didnt write that post as a landlord i wrote it after years of adivsing on housing and debt problems to some of the people you describe. Loacal Authorities had the same problems with non-payment of rents - strange how when they set up rent arrears officer who go to these peoples houses (if they doing their job properly) manage to get most rent payments back on target. As landlord do you issue your tenants with advice on where they can go if there are experiencing rent payment problems, a simple letter explaing where your local housing advice centre is may be all that is needed. What to do if they get into problems paying the rent could be given at the start of a tenancy. At least then you can prove you have shown due dilligency at preventing build up of arrears as the tenant had the information provided to them to prevent eviction on the grounds of rent arrears Have any of you ever been in so much debt that you are at risk of losing your home... I can tell you it can send even the most honest and above board person into turmoil and they do things which are out of nature and certainly do not help their situation ie ignore phone calls, letters etc. This does not help you get your rent admittedly and you are certainly not charities that can afford non-rent paying tenants but most just get further into a mess because they hide from what they cant pay what may have originaly started with 1 month missed rent can turn into several very quickly for the tenant. As a legal housing advisor the amount of clients who turned up at our officers the day b4 an eviction is due to take place is astounding........ They hope it will go away, they do not know what to do as they cant pay the rent. So they do nothing. Court papers help inthe local authority i live in as they provide appropriate leaflets on where to go to get advice. But if they were provided with advice on first month failure many of these people could remedy the situation to help them and of course the landlord get his rent. The few who do mess up - intentionaly and abuse the tenancy and yes there are some of these around make all non-rent payers look as bad as them even tho the situation may be entirely different. My opinion will not change after a year rodent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Dewsberry Posted August 14, 2008 Report Share Posted August 14, 2008 I didnt write that post as a landlord i wrote it after years of adivsing on housing and debt problems to some of the people you describe. Loacal Authorities had the same problems with non-payment of rents - strange how when they set up rent arrears officer who go to these peoples houses (if they doing their job properly) manage to get most rent payments back on target. As landlord do you issue your tenants with advice on where they can go if there are experiencing rent payment problems, a simple letter explaing where your local housing advice centre is may be all that is needed. What to do if they get into problems paying the rent could be given at the start of a tenancy. At least then you can prove you have shown due dilligency at preventing build up of arrears as the tenant had the information provided to them to prevent eviction on the grounds of rent arrears Yep....comespeak to me immediately so we may work out a plan which will work for us both ...pls be open and honest and i will treat you and the situation with the utmost respect .....spk to LH office ....but when they advise ...ignore S21 and wait for bailliff ....it doen't help matters at all .........I am firm but fair , as are pretty much all LL ........burying head in sand, ignoring hiding and running away(and yes i mean literally ..whenyou see me )will have exactly the same response of annoyance from me as i would expect from you (T) if i were to owe you money and treat you with such accord ..... If the long term sit is such that you (T) simply cannot afford to live at prop anymore then, like everyone else you need to move to to affordable accomodation ...and I will assist .........in every reasonable way i can ..... Have any of you ever been in so much debt that you are at risk of losing your home... I can tell you it can send even the most honest and above board person into turmoil and they do things which are out of nature and certainly do not help their situation ie ignore phone calls, letters etc. This does not help you get your rent admittedly and you are certainly not charities that can afford non-rent paying tenants but most just get further into a mess because they hide from what they cant pay what may have originaly started with 1 month missed rent can turn into several very quickly for the tenant. This does not help T control his/her position in any way either ...which is more relevant ....for a good lead on this we can us several egs .....HMRC ....spk to us to arrange some payment plan or we will take goods to the value of .....Dont ignore us as you will create a lot of effort time and energy to sort this .....which you will ultimately pick up the bill for .... Any lender will clearly not take kindly to the above and will chase and charge accordingly .... When faced with this position one of the first q's i ask this " if i owed you 1k/2k/3k ...and ingnored you, hid from you , ran away etc .....what would you have to say to me when you finally caught up with me ???? and then exactly what would YOU do about the outstanding debt that i owed you ??? help me out here ....." Sure peoples lives change every day ...i have over 100 T's and at least one has a life changing experience EVERY MONTH that is no excuse for behaving as above ...the vast majority actually dont !! ....we just find common ground that works for us both ... Whether T has done the lot on the horses , casino, holiday ,xmas, on a bender(s) along with losing job, had their bank acc cloned, lost their job etc is irrelevant ...outcome is the same .......Part of being LL is unfortunately being a pt social worker on times ......had one goon who 4 mths after losing his job ..had not applied for HB because ...get this ..had no credit on his phone to book an app ...struth ....i applied on myphone on his behalf ...and worked with LL liason team and his housing assistance officer to get claim sorted .....HE LOST MTHS HB thru stupidity onhis part ....he owes me 2500 which i have agreed to him paying off over 100years (lol) So YES we do help these cases ...if they would only let us ....but numpties who refuse to accept help have only themselved to blame IMHO ....and these are a different breed of T altogether and deserve both barrels which i will certainly give them .......... As a legal housing advisor the amount of clients who turned up at our officers the day b4 an eviction is due to take place is astounding........ These people have ignored multiple and numerous opportunities to sort out problems .....completely irresponsible and NO excuse for this in any way ......... other than sheer stupidity .......lost job ...seek hb........Prop to exp..move to cheaper accom........addicts/alcoholics/gamblers...get hb paid direct to LL as vunerable case ....so what excuse is left ? They hope it will go away, they do not know what to do as they cant pay the rent. So they do nothing. Court papers help inthe local authority i live in as they provide appropriate leaflets on where to go to get advice. But if they were provided with advice on first month failure many of these people could remedy the situation to help them and of course the landlord get his rent. LAW OF LIFE ....RULE ONE .....If you dont pay your rent/Mort you WILL lose your home If Probs with above seek immediate advice /help .........good starting point i feel ......realistically their aren't many LL who wait 6 mths non pymt and then think " oo wonder where my rent is ......" after 1 mth most LA LL are trying to contact T ...like immediately .......as pointed out above ...the way they handle sit is what causes/compounds prob ....responsibilty for this can only be directly directly at T The few who do mess up - intentionaly and abuse the tenancy and yes there are some of these around make all non-rent payers look as bad as them even tho the situation may be entirely different. NON payers are bad news....period ....negotiated late payers are a different matter... My opinion will not change after a year rodent If it was your money i would wager it would change immediately ...or are you saying it is okay for me to pop round and steal your £2000 you have saved up for next years holiday....or maybe raid your pension plan .........or shall i just nick 2K out of your bank acc ..make you go overdrawn in the process (you can pay the fees ..your acc not mine!!)........will you still be feeling sorry for me ....it's not MY fault i havent got any money ...you have some so i'm just going to take yours .?????????????GET REAL SUQ. The Rodent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesrap Posted August 14, 2008 Report Share Posted August 14, 2008 Hi Croybay. I woudlnt waste my time with Debt Collection agencys why cus i am lincenced to operate one and no how they work lol Why dont you use a court ballif? Send another request to the defendant for payment and say that you will issue a request for the sherrifs office to call. You say you have got judgement on your case. So you have legal ground to do this A DCA will charge through the roof for this and to be honest they dont have your best interests at heart. Did the tennants show up in court? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Dewsberry Posted August 14, 2008 Report Share Posted August 14, 2008 Hi Croybay. I woudlnt waste my time with Debt Collection agencys why cus i am lincenced to operate one and no how they work lol Why dont you use a court ballif? Send another request to the defendant for payment and say that you will issue a request for the sherrifs office to call. You say you have got judgement on your case. So you have legal ground to do this If you have got judgement ..yep the way to go ......... A DCA will charge through the roof for this and to be honest they dont have your best interests at heart. If set up correctly T will pay fees ............... "to be honest they dont have your best interests at heart"..... Intrigued please explain ....we are talking proper licensed dc here ...rather than thug with baseball bat ?? Did the tennants show up in court? The Rodent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesrap Posted August 14, 2008 Report Share Posted August 14, 2008 The Rodent Hey rodent. The name of the game is to make money. The main aim of a dca these days is to pressure the debtor into returning there money. You no this is against section 40 of the administration of justice act 1970. The only way to do this correctly is to get the landlord to issue a warning and then take them to court. Afterwards they can get the relevant authorities to do this within statute law. James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Dewsberry Posted August 14, 2008 Report Share Posted August 14, 2008 Dc to be used as premptive strike b4 going to court once order granted then bailiff /dc Since when has it been illegal to collect a debt ...either by LL or nominated collecting agent? The Rodent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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