vicl163 Posted August 7, 2008 Report Share Posted August 7, 2008 I am a new landlord and after 12 months my tenant told the agent (which is managing the property on our behalf) that he was not planning to renew the shorthold tenancy. The agent started showing the property around to other potential tenants and found a suitable tenant. Now the old tenant refuses to go and has stopped paying. I have sent him a letter giving him 2 additional days as a goodwill gesture to arrange his affairs and telling him that unless he leaves I will serve him a court order under section 21. During all this time the letting agent (which is a small company) has failed to take any action. They hold one month's deposit from the tenant. I am planning to meet with the tenant before serving the court order on him to see if I can persuade him to leave but the agent refuses to be part of the meeting. What can I do? Any advice from any experienced landlord? Thanks a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J4L Posted August 9, 2008 Report Share Posted August 9, 2008 If your agent has been managing this property then he should be speaking to the Tenant not you!! He should have got on top of this a long while ago and taken the notice in writing and not just a verbal one. If you serve a section 21 now then it needs to be served correctly, (get the dates right) and you must give 2 months. I'd be tempted to have the meeting with the Tenant yourself at this stage and inform the LA that you will be attempting to retrieve any monies earned via the commission route over the last 12 months becasue he has obviously not been fulfilling his duties. Haggle with the Tenant a little and tell him that if he goes by a certain date and pays say half of what's owed then you won't pursue him for the rest, If he doesn't then you will chase him for the total amount owed plus costs and interest. At the end of the day I'd rather him out and get a new tenant in who is paying rather than having to wait for a few months to get him out and get nothing. And whatever you do, do not let the old LA anywhere near your property or your new Tenants again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Dewsberry Posted August 9, 2008 Report Share Posted August 9, 2008 As above except .....not half debt ALL debt to be paid or 15% dc fees + interest etc .....and a confirmed "early" leaving date The Rodent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J4L Posted August 9, 2008 Report Share Posted August 9, 2008 I'm just thinking of the time element here Simon and how long it's going to cost the landlord in missed payments if the DC fails and it needs to go to court? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Dewsberry Posted August 9, 2008 Report Share Posted August 9, 2008 And i'm thinking ......how worried is the tenant going to be when he realises LL is a professional who is not going to put up with getting tucked up .............and just hoe much is going to cost the T if he wants to play hard ball......once negotiations are reopened with T then a view can be taken on just how of the debt will get collected ....but i would not be shooting my load on round 1 The Rodent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vicl163 Posted August 11, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 11, 2008 Many thanks J4L and Rodent for your reply and advice. Unfortunately the tenant refuses to see me or the agent and sign any new agreement so I had no choice except to serve a section 21 through Landlord Action specialist service. I now have to wait to see if the tenant leaves or becomes more flexible and wants to talk. I have 2 additional questions: 1. What action should I take with the LA bearing in mind that they keep 1 month's deposit from the tenant? If I let them now that I am not interested in keeping their services any longer and possibly ask for compesation for their lack of service, how can I insure that I recover the deposit money? 2. Do I need to take any further action with the tenant? Thanks very much again If your agent has been managing this property then he should be speaking to the Tenant not you!! He should have got on top of this a long while ago and taken the notice in writing and not just a verbal one. If you serve a section 21 now then it needs to be served correctly, (get the dates right) and you must give 2 months. I'd be tempted to have the meeting with the Tenant yourself at this stage and inform the LA that you will be attempting to retrieve any monies earned via the commission route over the last 12 months becasue he has obviously not been fulfilling his duties. Haggle with the Tenant a little and tell him that if he goes by a certain date and pays say half of what's owed then you won't pursue him for the rest, If he doesn't then you will chase him for the total amount owed plus costs and interest. At the end of the day I'd rather him out and get a new tenant in who is paying rather than having to wait for a few months to get him out and get nothing. And whatever you do, do not let the old LA anywhere near your property or your new Tenants again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Dewsberry Posted August 11, 2008 Report Share Posted August 11, 2008 Hi John Not going to slate "landlord action" but neither am i going to give them praise where it is not due ........... These guys are "specialist experts" albeit at a fairly hefty cost ............and for their fee should be advising you accordingly ? The Rodent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J4L Posted August 12, 2008 Report Share Posted August 12, 2008 John, You stated that " I am a new landlord and after 12 months my tenant told the agent" If their agreement was after April 2007 (which it sounds like it was) then the deposit should have been protected and certainly not being 'held' by the LA unless in an insured scheme. Regardless of your claim against their lack of service the deposit remains the Tenants money unless a claim is made on it by you or the LA. I'd be asking for a transfer of the deposit into your account (if you have one with a scheme, if not commence one) and deal with the other issues separately. Read your contract with the agent, you should be able to give him one months notice that you no longer require his services without much of a kick back. No further action needed with the Tenant until you get closer to the date that the S21 expires. If he doesn't go on the specified date then it's the court route. You could have a problem if the S21 dates are not correct or indeed if the Agent hasn't protected the deposit correctly but a letter to the courts may help if you highlight the inadequacies of the agent in this matter. It wouldn't hurt in the meantime to instruct a DC agency to try and scare him out earlier. You may find that once he receives a letter he may just go of his own accord so keep an eye on the property and speak to the neighbours to see if he's still around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vicl163 Posted August 28, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 28, 2008 J4L, Many thanks for your advice. The saga continues.... T has been served the S21 but he is still there and refuses to set a leaving date. One month has passed by and he has not paid the rent. He says that I can take the money from the deposit scheme for this month and then he will pay 1/2 of the rent next month if he is still there (he originally paid a 6 months deposit) In the meantime I discovered that the LA is a virtual organisation with no real office and they are not talking to me or the T. I have also discovered that the LA has not deposited the money in a safe scheme as they told me they would. 2 questions: 1. You mentioned a letter to the courts about the shortcomings of the LA. What is the procedure for doing this? Do I take the letter with me to the court when the hearing is on or do I need to send it before? 2. If I accept the T's offer of partial payment and using the deposit money while he is still in the property how does that change my legal position in the court? Thanks a lot again in anticipation John John, You stated that " I am a new landlord and after 12 months my tenant told the agent" If their agreement was after April 2007 (which it sounds like it was) then the deposit should have been protected and certainly not being 'held' by the LA unless in an insured scheme. Regardless of your claim against their lack of service the deposit remains the Tenants money unless a claim is made on it by you or the LA. I'd be asking for a transfer of the deposit into your account (if you have one with a scheme, if not commence one) and deal with the other issues separately. Read your contract with the agent, you should be able to give him one months notice that you no longer require his services without much of a kick back. No further action needed with the Tenant until you get closer to the date that the S21 expires. If he doesn't go on the specified date then it's the court route. You could have a problem if the S21 dates are not correct or indeed if the Agent hasn't protected the deposit correctly but a letter to the courts may help if you highlight the inadequacies of the agent in this matter. It wouldn't hurt in the meantime to instruct a DC agency to try and scare him out earlier. You may find that once he receives a letter he may just go of his own accord so keep an eye on the property and speak to the neighbours to see if he's still around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPEEDTWIN Posted August 29, 2008 Report Share Posted August 29, 2008 Well if the deposit hasnt been protected when it should have that means you cannot use s21 to getthem out. But saying that if the s21 court hearing wasnt defended i dont think it would be picked up opon. If you can get the deposit passed over to to from the agent get it protected asap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J4L Posted August 29, 2008 Report Share Posted August 29, 2008 "T has been served the S21 but he is still there and refuses to set a leaving date" If you have already served then you have set the leaving date. It would be in the notice. If he doesn't go on that date then you will have to go down the court route. How was notice served? And have you got proof that he received it? Go with speedtwin's advice above and get that deposit back and get it into a scheme BEFORE any court dates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vicl163 Posted August 29, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 29, 2008 Hi, J4L and Speedwin, Sorry I may have confused you by saying S21. The serve received by the tenant (he acknowledged it to me by phone) was prepared by Landlord Action on 11 August under Section 8 of the Housing Act 1988. Is this called S21? The leaving date set in the notice is 31/8 (i.e. Sunday coming). After that I have the choice of giving him more time or starting court proceedings. In the meantime T told me that he is happy to pay me 2 weeks rent for September and that for the August and half of September rent that he owes I should use the 6 weeks deposit.The problem is that the LA has not put the deposit in a save scheme and they are not responsing to my letters or calls plus as you know the deposit is for any damage after T leaves and cannot be used before (legally). My aim is getting T our first and worry about the money after. I am having a meeting with T this evening to try to find a solution. I would prefer an amicable solution before going to court but I am not sure that I can trust him. Any advice as to what to do? Should I take T's offer of the money and if so, does this harm my legal position if I take him to court in the end? Regards John "T has been served the S21 but he is still there and refuses to set a leaving date" If you have already served then you have set the leaving date. It would be in the notice. If he doesn't go on that date then you will have to go down the court route. How was notice served? And have you got proof that he received it? Go with speedtwin's advice above and get that deposit back and get it into a scheme BEFORE any court dates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPEEDTWIN Posted August 29, 2008 Report Share Posted August 29, 2008 The section 8 is (i guess) using grounds 8, 10, 11 which means for g 8, 2 months owing which if proved the judge has to give a possesion order so if the T pays enough off the arrears to bring it a penny under 2 months owing before the court hearing g8 cant be used. You will be then left with g 10 & g 11 which is about always paying late etc. The judge does not have to give possesion with these grounds (it is his decision) and in my expireance if the tenant decides to defend it and appear in court it will go the way for the T but if he doesnt turn up you have a lot better chance. When i last when to court for just g 10 & 11 the T didnt turn up but i certainly got the impression the judge didnt want to give possesion and wouldnt have done so if the tenant was there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Dewsberry Posted August 29, 2008 Report Share Posted August 29, 2008 Hi John Not going to slate "landlord action" but neither am i going to give them praise where it is not due ........... These guys are "specialist experts" albeit at a fairly hefty cost ............and for their fee should be advising you accordingly ? The Rodent What do the specialist say and advise ...for their "very reasonable fee" ?????????????? The Rodent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Preston Posted September 7, 2008 Report Share Posted September 7, 2008 Hi John I do agree with some of the other contributors that you need to speak to your advisors. At the very least, if they were clearly instructed that you wanted possession, they should have advised you to serve a section 21 notice at the same time as the ground 8 application, so if the latter fails you could act on the alternative. And if you havent served a section 21 notice, I would do so as soon as possible, unless you are absolutely sure that the tenant will be more than 8 weeks in arrears at the date of the hearing (and who could be?) As an aside, I would also start thinking about what happens when you do finally get the tenant to leave. Start building up, if you can, information about his means, any forwarding or contact details, employment details, etc. These could be very useful in chasing up any arrears, if the the deposit is not enough to cover them. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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